RPG CODEX 2017 - Dungeon Crawlers - RESULTS

Good job, but the problem with your results is that you judge each game in a vacuum.

Might & Magic III has a high % of positive votes, but that's because it had few votes - in truth, only 18% of voters think it's "must play", while 43% of voters think Wizardry 8 is a "must play".

If we do (VOTES/TOTAL VOTES)*MUST PLAY, we get a better sense of what ALL voters think are the "must play" games:



Dungeon Master is #11 and Arx Fatalis is #12, making this a pretty good list for me.

BTW, World of Xeen is Clouds of Xeen + Dark Side of Xeen combined, so I left only World of Xeen in the list, since it ranked higher.

 

While I understand where you are coming from, one must always keep in mind that naturally the most played games will also have the advantage of skewing the odds in their favor. In other words: if there was a game that was played by only 20 people, but 19 said it was a "Must Play" (a huge percentage, 95%), this new table of results wouldn't even place it on the list (23.75%). And I don't know you, but if 95% (of 20 people no less, a considerable number) said it was a Must Play, I would definitely be more interested in playing it than playing something like Diablo.

Personally I'm more comfortable with judging each game "in a vacuum", but to each their own.

 

Sheesh, you are old! I fixed my brainfart on that line you quoted.

 

But if a game only had one vote, an that vote was a "must play", it would top the chart at #1 -100% must play. That could have easily happened with something niche like Rance VI.

That's why I use Bayesian Average in my polls - not only it offers a balance of both popularity & niche titles, but it automatically solves the "game with very few votes" issue.

 

It's true, BUT! Notice how I didn't have any polls like that. It is not my intention to tell others how to interpret the results. I didn't start these threads just so others could see what the bestest games are; rather, I made these just to give people lots of different games to check out.

The "Top Five" I suggested I consider to be "objective" since there is a logical reason behind it, grounded in the majority: the majority played those, and the majority of those who played them agree they are all Must Plays. No other games on this list satisfy those two requirements, so I thought it would be fitting to call those the Codex's Top Five Dungeon Crawlers.

And I do stand by that. Anything else I'd rather not deal with. Rance VI's positive votes, I take them with a grain of salt. Others may look at it and think "this must be awesome, I have to play it!".

 

I like the results we got. Hexx, Bloodwych, Lands of Lore III, Thunderscape, Dungeon Hack, Legend, The Quest, Lands of Lore II, all games I had on my original "must play" list that have been proven to be shit by the Codex.

Meanwhile here I am, replaying New Vegas for the hundredth. Truly the greatest RPG ever made.

 

I feel like the term "dungeon crawler" is being thrown around too much. Not that it matter THAT much, but when I think dungeon crawler, I think Eye of the Beholder, or Dungeon Master. I don't think the Might and Magic games are dungeon crawlers, and some other titles on here, like Lords of Xulima. I guess they could fit under the label comfortably enough though.

 

I find it disturbing that games like Disciples of Steel, Nahlakh and Natuk are so high up on the "Avoid" list.

 

I wouldn't mind someone removing the "not traditional" dungeon crawlers from the list so I could add it to the OP. From what I've seen in pictures, those three don't really look like dungeon crawlers, which could help explain the negative votes.

 

They're about as much dungeon crawlers as Pool of Radiance (that is, in my book - not much), yet PoR is at the top of the list.
Now, having The Summoning so low on the list - that's a real travesty. I can get people not liking the Trazere games (they're very non-traditional in every respect), but TS is one of the best DM clones out there. It's a pity DU didn't cave in to your pleas to make it an official Codex poll, I would very much like to know who were the dumbfucks who gave it negative votes.

 

I think it's a pity too, if only because an official Codex poll would have saved me much hassle (and the voters as well). And it being official would have garnered more votes, the Age of Incline got EIGHT HUNDRED USERS. Eight hundred, and the poll was considerably bigger (over twice the games) so it was even more of a hassle to vote on it. It was up for two weeks, and mine was up for eight days, but I very much doubt we would have got 720 votes in just six days.

So yeah, this poll is very mediocre due to the negligence of the Codex staff.

 

Why didn't you just make a smaller poll with fewer games?

 

It would have changed nothing, really. Only that we would have got even less games to have an opinion of. The whole point of a Codex poll was: attract more users, better ways to measure the results (instead of me doing the math on the Internet).

 

Why the fuck does Dark Souls rank so poorly ?
It's clearly not a dungeon crawler but shouldnt you simply remove it from the list instead of having the codex act like an idiot hipster ?

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It depends what one considers a dungeon crawler: to me, Dark Souls is a dungeon crawler. An unconventional one for sure, but a FANTASTIC dungeon crawler. I think of Dark Souls has one huge dungeon.

 

Hope the low scores for games like The Magic Candle 1 / Natuk / Nalakh is more "this isn't a dungeon crawler" and less "this game sucks" or I will lower my opinion of you people.

 

I can attest that my vote was exactly that. I love MC series, but its dungeons aren't its strong suit.

 

It's why I encourage people to tell me which games on this list AREN'T dungeon crawlers in any way or form, so I can remove them, because indeed I worry some scores may cloud the perception some users have towards certain games.

 

Well, technically on the current list Magic Candle and The Quest are the only titles that are definitely not DCs under any reasonable understanding of the term (aside possibly from a couple of JRPGs that I didn't play and can't say anything about them).
Disciples of Steel, Natuk, Nahlakh, Pool of Radiance and Pools of Darkness are more of a gray area. An argument could be made that you spend the majority of these games in the dungeons. However, their focus and challenge is so clearly in individual tactical battles rather than dungeons as a whole, that I'd say they shouldn't really be on the list.

 

Duly noted and I agree with this. In Wizardry, the focus is clearly on the dungeon. Though it pains me to say it, the focus of Dark Souls is the combat, even though it does the "dungeon" fantastically.

 

People did.

 

Despite some niggles, this list is actually petty good imo. As for Felipepepes criticism, I'd take it with a pinch of salt as I fondly remember doing his poll a few years ago and the methodology was beyond comical. Sounds like hes improved things somewhat, but everyone starts somewhere.

For context, I design and analyse surveys for a living.