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Codex Interview RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Infinitron, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. MF The Boar Studio Developer

    MF
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    I hope so. Leonard Boyarsky's sense of aesthetics is one of the few things I'll unironically fanboy over. From Fallout to Arcanum to Bloodlines. Sexy as fuck. He's a great artist and his drawings are gorgeous, but what he's even better at is guiding people towards a consistent vision.

    I really, really want to see that Cain/Boyarsky game become a reality.

    Which reminds me: Chris Avellone, when we were working on the Fallout Bible with Dan and Section 8 of Microforte to keep FO: Tactics from straying too far, you said something about the original Fallout story, and when I wrote for vault13.net (I was 14 at the time, memory is fuzzy) Tim mentioned that the guy who drafted the story was Scott Campbell. You figured back then that he didn't get enough credit, even though you weren't sure because you weren't part of Fallout 1. It's a long time ago , but the question of Fallout's origins has since gained some heft.

    Now that Fallout is a household name and I see girls in line at the grocery store wearing a vault boy t-shirt, our silly endless discussions about whether talking Deathclaws should be canon or not seem to carry more weight than I would have ever thought possible, while at the same time being completely irrelevant. I know it's no longer considered canon, but did you or people at Bethesda ever end up referencing the bible or was that a wasted effort on our part?

    PS I recall Scott mentioning that he replaced Feargus as a playtester at Interplay on Castles 2, so Feargus wasn't always a business guy. At some point he got paid to test games. Just think about that and realize that you should never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by...anything that could give you more peace of mind. Peter Principle is a bitch.
     
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  2. DarkUnderlord Bringing that old Raptor magic.

    DarkUnderlord
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    Sacrifices must be made. Also there's a big difference between changing someone's avatar (for the record, he changed it himself - and my other consideration was to change everyone's avatar to MCA's for extra shits 'n giggles) and denying them speech. In the same way we have all these colourful tags for people. You can say what you like, we just might put up a warning to others if we think it's too retarded. And we'll let everyone else judge those actions accordingly.

    Splitting conversations out of a thread never benefits anyone. If a conversation naturally arises about different topics within a thread, it's really hard to excise it cleanly. While Infinitron makes various attempts at that sometimes (mostly which I disagree with tbh), to me it changes nothing of the remaining conversation. An internet forum is an inherently chaotic place and it's difficult to organise that on a per post level in any sort of form.

    Pretty much that last one. The Codex wasn't founded to be nice to developers. And if a former developer wants to come here and shit all over his colleagues, he's pretty much free to do so. Like everything else, it will be discussed. And as you can see in this thread, MCA doesn't just have his legions of mindless supporter drones, there are those criticising MCA for his actions too.

    Any other forum and we'd either have banned all those who dared disagree with a beloved developer posting in our little neck of the woods, or we would've sided with Obsidian and excised MCA's account. This thread would've been locked around page 50 for being "too heated". Then we'd try and pretend it never happened, which usually means banning half the forum as people keep bringing the topic up.
     
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  3. Lambchop19 Arcane Zionist Agent Literally Hitler Batshit Crazy

    Lambchop19
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    It's less that the venue has poisoned the message and more that even those one or two games journos you respect so highly are more interested in positive relations with game devs than they are in exposing dirt on them.

    Mainstream sites are all too willing to run articles on the Codex to try and assassinate Rex's character or link to interviews we've done when a dev divulges some interesting tidbit of upcoming game info, but mysteriously go silent on issues like this. They don't even need to credit the Codex. They can just use screenshots or cite "sources" like all the big non-games journos do.

    It's got nothing to do with what's been said in this thread and everything to do with what they're really interested in and how this business works.

    Give it a year after Obsidian finally goes under and maybe one of those oh-so-serious games journos will suddenly develop a backbone and talk about this openly. Until then...

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Maculo Prophet

    Maculo
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    DU never removed or altered Kit's posts though. If changing Kit's avatar is greatest "hypocrisy" you can point to in DU's post, then I cannot imagine it is that bad.

    How are you going to truly classify a shitpost, when even Avellone has been making off topic jabs? Are you going to remove Avellone's post to GD?
     
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  5. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Oh yeah, and the posts about communism here are totally legit and lead to some amazing debate, is not just attention whores trolling on the Codex's most popular thread in years...
     
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  6. pomenitul Learned

    pomenitul
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    Because there is clearly nothing to hide in a culture where trolly edginess and one-upmanship reign supreme.
     
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  7. v1rus Arcane

    v1rus
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    Chris Avellone

    Since, as you yourself said, there have been way too many questions, and you havent managed to answer/catch them all (which I, ofc, absolutely understand), I'm going to try once more, hoping you will see it this time. I hope you dont take this as rude/pushy. :love:And, I hope I'm not missing the point - most of the questions seem to relate to current situation in the industry, but I caught a few offtopic ones, and I really want to pick your brain.


    Heck, while we are here, I'd like to toss another one - what is your opinion, and have you ever consciously based your work on narrative models such as monomyth/writers journey/etc.? How applicable are they when it comes to video games?
     
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  8. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    Come now. You act as if one of your mods don't do the same. He has been called out on it by multiple posters, including, if it means anything at all, someone who has been here for a very long time.

    I have worked with a company where only 1 or 2 out of over 80 staff were a problem, and yet the whole company went from having the potential to be the best of the best in its field to one that would be near impossible to even get rated "satisfactory" by the client. Favouritism is a nasty, NASTY thing and the fallout from it is horrendous. I could list the bullying, harassment, bigotry, undermining, politics, and worse, but that would take a novel. Even the clients started accusing them of favouritism, racism and worse. It got to the point where it became untenable, and as my project team started losing its best people to "reassignment" and they were replaced with favourites who were placed to get a bit of shine from good projects, I switched modes from being the leader of the team to being the janitor. After the last of the original team left the company, I walked away as well. I did give them a warning that if any of their favourites try to push crap on me again, I will just drop everything and walk out. After that, it was a matter of when, not if, something like that would happen.

    From what I understand of Chris Avellone's posts, that was part of the problem over in Obsidian shortly before he left the place.
     
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  9. Jenkem Cipher Patron

    Jenkem
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    Make the Codex Great Again!
    wow, you're right... the website is really fucking strange these days.. and by the way affect is a verb and effect is a noun
     
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  10. Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss Magister Patron

    Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    Actually, yes. The main subject f this thread has been treatment of workers by a corporation. It's only natural that you have commies raise their heads.
     
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  12. Kleptocratic debt serf Educated

    Kleptocratic debt serf
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    Maybe DU is all about democratic values or maybe that Kit Walker guy almost started an insurrection. Also, are you going to be the new premier authority on what constitutes low-effort shitposting? I dunno, why not ignore it.

    Perhaps, DU wants the Codex to be a force for greater balance, especially when the competition has this going for it...
    https://www.resetera.com/threads/wh...iticise-supposed-sjw-material-in-games.24028/

    Or Maybe DU just doesn't give a fuck, TWIMTBP.
     
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  13. Lambchop19 Arcane Zionist Agent Literally Hitler Batshit Crazy

    Lambchop19
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    :australia:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Maculo Prophet

    Maculo
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    I think you are wrong on this. People debated the working conditions at Obsidian and practices, and compared different standards (USA, Europe, etc). Some posters did take it too far (Blaine, Prime Junta, etc), but you failed to notice that the discussion reined itself in again. The posters moderated themselves.

    Furthermore, how is it any less legit than, "why are we not a tier 1 website" and comparing an avatar change to mass banning and censorship?

    Edit: You also failed to mention Avellone's own posts. Like calling IHaveHugeNick a "fucking shill," going off on Blaine, talking about Elex, or jabbing an Infinitron for being fake news. Truly, legitimate discussion and tier one website worthy :lol:. Isn't a little hypocritical to want DU and the staff to censor/remove posts, but yet you neglect to mention Avellone himself?
     
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  15. DarkUnderlord Bringing that old Raptor magic.

    DarkUnderlord
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    I'm well aware of the inadequacies of various members of staff. :smug:

    Everyone has their bias. And a point at which there are things they won't tolerate. Even me. Finding people willing to volunteer for an RPG community site is always difficult and you take the good with the bad. Nobody is perfect. You can alleviate some of that with guidelines and clear rules, but then others will take that too far. Rex used to have the same criticism levelled against him, as did VD, as did Saint_Proverbius, along with all those inbetween. Ideally we'd have a couple of mods / news posters so that it's not all one person's view, but the history of the Codex shows it's always been one main person modding / posting news until they get exhausted and we move on to the next one out to burn them out too eventually.

    I generally try not to judge the quality of the debate. To me, a forum topic is like any natural conversation. You might start talking about Trump winning the Nobel Peace Prize but by the end of it, you're discussing Penguins in Madagascar and wondering how you got there, with many half-made and dropped conversation points along the way. You can't control that. At what point do you decide that a derailing around communism is unacceptable but you're own which has lead to a discussion about forum moderation is ok?
     
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  16. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    DarkUnderlord never change mate,may the spark of anarchy stays strong in you. :salute:
     
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  17. Wild Slop Arcane

    Wild Slop
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    A Brazilian that can't stand idly by while commies are being rooted out. hmmmmm
     
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  18. Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss Magister Patron

    Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    I don't see any tags on IHaveHugeNick. He is a cousin of you or something. Or maybe you just don't feel like it. This place is just like Obsidian.

    Naturally my ass. These communists are shamefully trying to infect a discussion about game design with marxist propaganda and they didn't even bother to hide.

    Says you, and I'm one that already had comments moved to other threads by the way. It works. But apparently in threads that really matter the whole site needs to read through the garbage so that we can actually read Avellone's posts. It's like you are trying to ruin the best thread we had in years.
     
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  19. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    Stop being butthurt mate,you spend 11 years on this forum and get ralliedd up by a few pages of shit tossing match between nazi party and the red menace!?
     
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  20. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Moving posts =/= "mass banning and censorship". Don't be such a drama queen.

    And sure, move everything out.
     
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  21. Maculo Prophet

    Maculo
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    Its your comparison to begin with. You shouldn't being calling anyone a drama queen or a hypocrite at this point.

    Furthermore, you cherry picked my post. You failed to mention that the communism discussion moderated itself. You also didn't take into account Avellone's own conduct, and yet that is more legitimate? It is a false dichotomy in a thread approaching 200 pages.
     
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  22. Lambchop19 Arcane Zionist Agent Literally Hitler Batshit Crazy

    Lambchop19
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    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Morgan Ramsay Educated

    Morgan Ramsay
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    All the owners, except Avellone, started their careers in QA.
    • Urquhart went into production and then studio management.
    • Parker went into production.
    • Monahan went into programming and then production.
    • Jones went into programming.
    All these transitions happened ~20 years ago. We all start somewhere.
     
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  24. TheSentinel Arcane

    TheSentinel
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    move these posts to site feedback and ban anyone making them ffs!!!!!!
     
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  25. santino27 Arcane

    santino27
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    I'm a bit confused by this... 'review' time in America is generally the annual performance review wherein employees are hoping for some sort of a raise, promotion, or guidance, and I assumed that's what Chris Avellone was referring to. That's not tied to game development schedules and is very different than 'pre-launch game review and regression' which is what you appear to be describing.

    I don't work in the gaming industry though, so maybe they do things differently, and that's what MCA meant. Would love a clarification from him, if so!

    Edit: Also, if people would just ignore the off-topic posts, they'd likely go away. Most of this shit is done for attention, after all.
     
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