RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[fantadomat]

Non-compete clause is the least controversial news out of this whole fiasco. I'm not sure why is it generating so much butthurt in these comments, when it is just good businesses practice. You can't have a guy who has so much in-depth knowledge of inner workings of the company joining the competition within 24 hours.

These clauses are increasingly common nowadays and they rarely last longer then 6 to 12 months. It really is not that big of a deal.

Although, to the best of my knowledge, a non-compete clause is usually tied to a generous severance package. You can't work but we will give you a bucket of dolla for the time you have to sit on the sidelines. It's a fair deal then. So how does Chris go from being a co-owner, co-founder and practically a public face of the company, to having no money, no insurance AND a non-compete on top of it all, I have no idea, but it boggles the mind.

Woman/women?

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

Non-compete clause is the least controversial news out of this whole fiasco.

Umm.. no sweety.

I'm not sure why is it generating so much butthurt in these comments, when it is just good businesses practice. You can't have a guy who has so much in-depth knowledge of inner workings of the company joining the competition within 24 hours.

These clauses are increasingly common nowadays and they rarely last longer then 6 to 12 months. It really is not that big of a deal.

Not always true. It is definitely a good business practice as business practices go when you actually have *critical insight into ideas on the competitive edge*. If MCA was a programmer working on Crytech's latest algorithm to generate the collision models then, yeah he would be taking away potentially damaging information away from the company. In this case, this is hardly the issue.

Although, to the best of my knowledge, a non-compete clause is usually tied to a generous severance package. You can't work but we will give you a bucket of dolla for the time you have to sit on the sidelines. It's a fair deal then. So how does Chris go from being a co-owner, co-founder and practically a public face of the company, to having no money, no insurance AND a non-compete on top of it all, I have no idea, but it boggles the mind.

Unfortunately, in modern contracts, this is not a quid pro quo that you imagine. It *should* be. But it is not. Look, I know what you are saying and in the right context, it makes sense. But not here and not with MCA.

 

[ArchAngel]

ITT a bunch of random strangers who have never dated before hear little tidbits of some dude's not-perfectly-happy breakup and then ANALYSE

MCA was clearly v. unhappy with many things & left the place. You, random guy on the Internet, aren't going to ever learn the truth of the matter even if Anthony Davis or whoever else agrees (against all their better judgment) to engage in a blow-by-blow argument. You're just going to see what you want to see - the last few pages are full of people coming up with reasons to dismiss bits they don't like. The messy, suboptimal conflict-ridden decision-making around Durance/GM is a familiar story with no clear right/wrong side for anyone who's ever worked in large team projects.

The one thing that is really fucked up if true is:

The CEO pressuring Chris to sign an NDA and non-competition clause forbidding him from working on cRPGs is another thing altogether.

Where did PJ get this? Did I miss the bit in the interview? I only saw the bit quoted above by AwesomeButton. I don't really care about the 'silence' clause - given how he's shitstirring in a billion interviews these days, it seems like he needed one - but the 'inability to work on RPGs' is both vague and terrifying.

(Also, yes, yes, I know the Codex loves its daytime dramas, god forbid anyone try and tell you to refrain)

Oh look a Obsidian forums mod comes here and openly denies MCA story.. completely unexpected.

 

[AwesomeButton]

He has stopped being a mod a long time ago.

 

[Prime Junta]

Where did PJ get this? Did I miss the bit in the interview? I only saw the bit quoted above by AwesomeButton. I don't really care about the 'silence' clause - given how he's shitstirring in a billion interviews these days, it seems like he needed one - but the 'inability to work on RPGs' is both vague and terrifying.

I have an active imagination.

 

[Blaine]

Tigranes IHaveHugeNick et al.

The ethical way to utilize non-competes is to prevent your departing employee from taking expertise and knowledge gained during and as a result of his employment with your company elsewhere, at least for a while.

MCA brought his talent and experience and the prestige of his name to Obsidian, not the other way around. Dangling money in front of him in order to coerce him into not bringing his own talents (and name) elsewhere is despicable and pathetic.

But yeah, companies use non-competes all the time so it's totally kosher, h-heh... I read that on Reddit and Forbes.com, so yeah this is totally normal and not controversial at all and I definitely thought it all through.

 

[Flou]

This might be pointless here at the Codex, but I will share some of my experiences at Obsidian.

Also, people who still work here don't write reviews on Glassdoor.

Get well, sir!

That is very true. Every office that has around 200 people working there will have disgruntled staff members no matter how good the employer is. You can't please everyone.

If I were to leave my job tomorrow and got a better job, I could write a quite a sob story how the upper management treated some of us like dirt and didn't listen our reasoning and how we paid money from our own pocket to be more efficient as workers. But that's just part of the truth. The system that was built for everyone doesn't work as well for 5 of us due to various reasons the employer can't fix without creating further issues.

 

[Sentinel]

ITT a bunch of random strangers who have never dated before hear little tidbits of some dude's not-perfectly-happy breakup and then ANALYSE

MCA was clearly v. unhappy with many things & left the place. You, random guy on the Internet, aren't going to ever learn the truth of the matter even if Anthony Davis or whoever else agrees (against all their better judgment) to engage in a blow-by-blow argument. You're just going to see what you want to see - the last few pages are full of people coming up with reasons to dismiss bits they don't like. The messy, suboptimal conflict-ridden decision-making around Durance/GM is a familiar story with no clear right/wrong side for anyone who's ever worked in large team projects.

The one thing that is really fucked up if true is:

The CEO pressuring Chris to sign an NDA and non-competition clause forbidding him from working on cRPGs is another thing altogether.

Where did PJ get this? Did I miss the bit in the interview? I only saw the bit quoted above by AwesomeButton. I don't really care about the 'silence' clause - given how he's shitstirring in a billion interviews these days, it seems like he needed one - but the 'inability to work on RPGs' is both vague and terrifying.

(Also, yes, yes, I know the Codex loves its daytime dramas, god forbid anyone try and tell you to refrain)

lol
retard comes with his retarded comment only to admit in the same post he didn't even read the shit he's talking about

 

[mondblut]

Non-compete clause is the least controversial news out of this whole fiasco. I'm not sure why is it generating so much butthurt in these comments

Because we are selfish assholes, and at the end of the day the only thing that truly matters is moar RPGs being produced - or not. The rest of the fiasco only concerns MCA's well-being. That non-compete clause concerns us.

 

[Flou]

All of this is normal in EU (except maybe paying for plane tickets).
What kind of shitty country do you live in that you need to put this stuff as a Pro...

Uh, no it isn't. At least here you can be away for 3 days on your own notice. After that you need to have a doctor's note for any days off. That includes dead father.

"Is one week enough?" after you've lost your mother/father.

Sure they can't fire you immediately, but you can't just go off grid and deal with the issues without actually having a doctor write you for the sick days or you will be in some trouble.

 

[Tigranes]

ITT a bunch of random strangers who have never dated before hear little tidbits of some dude's not-perfectly-happy breakup and then ANALYSE

Not that I disagree, but... after saying this, you go on and give us your analysis? Which is more relevant why exactly? You dated yesterday and now have a rush of self-confidence, or what?

True.

Basically, I really don't give a crap about all the drama, except for instances where it's crystal clear that somebody is really being fucked over. E.g. if the non-RPG clause is true, that would really be a fucktarded thing to do by Obsidian. For everything else, *shrug*.

I just wish that Obsidian can go back to having good writing again, which they haven't for years, and that MCA's personal/family issues will subside allowing him to do really substantial work on real RPGs again.

Oh look a Obsidian forums mod comes here and openly denies MCA story.. completely unexpected.

I hung around there because I liked Obsidian's games very much. Now, I don't, because even though I liked POE, I think Obsidian's quality has declined, and the old BIS forumers are all dead. Of course, I explicitly refused to deny anybody's story, but apparently unless I believe MCA 100% I am a race traitor.

At least I don't play Fallout 4 or DA2 and then post on the Codex pretending to be a soldier of the incline like half the posters these days.

 

[Bohr]

Where did PJ get this? Did I miss the bit in the interview? I only saw the bit quoted above by AwesomeButton.

Might want to read MCA's other posts before completing your analysis

 

[Hobo Elf]

Not always true. It is definitely a good business practice as business practices go when you actually have *critical insight into ideas on the competitive edge*. If MCA was a programmer working on Crytech's latest algorithm to generate the collision models then, yeah he would be taking away potentially damaging information away from the company. In this case, this is hardly the issue.

This. Tech companies employ such agreements so that people don't hop from company to company selling trade secrets, but the longest such agreement I've heard of was about 5 years, which is extremely rare. Usually they last for a year or two. Not only was the deal going to stop Avellone from working on RPGs forever, it's not like Avellone had any technological trade secrets to share in the first place. I mean based on what Eric said ITT it seems like Avellone wasn't even that well versed in how their scripting program worked? Obsidian / Feargus is just afraid that they can't compete with games that have "Written by Chris Avellone" on the box. It comes off a bit pathetic on Obsidian's end.

 

[ArchAngel]

He has stopped being a mod a long time ago.

I guess you can take the Obsidian mod status away from a man but you cannot take away the man from the Obsidian mod status.

 

[Prime Junta]

the old BIS forumers are all dead

Not all of them.

 

[Flou]

OMG, no senior women in senior positions? Call the femquisition!

They've since promoted Dini McMurry into Senior Level Designer role. Femquisition cancelled

 

[AwesomeButton]

but apparently unless I believe MCA 100% I am a race traitor.

Not really, imo. Chris is an interested party, and from my humble exprience, when such things come to pass, there is fault in both sides. With Chris not denying his own fault, as can be seen.

 

[MRY]

This whole thing is sad.

When, years ago, I got to go to the WL2 launch on the Codex’s invite, I was struck by how kind and decent and friendly were the whole group of famed RPG developers (many were there). I’d basically had nothing but positive impressions of the folks I’d worked for in the game industry previously; they weren’t all brilliant (many were) but they were all basically well intentioned and nice. Meeting all the folks I idolized, I found them to be just as likable but also strikingly talented.

And, as I’ve mentioned before, I was no less struck by the decency and generosity of my colleagues on TTON.

Yet this whole thread suggests that my positive view was a luxury of being an offsite hobbyist dabbling in games without having to actually be part of the process. Whatever the facts here, there’s no denying the unhappiness among people I’ve always admired and always assumed to be close colleagues and friends, notwithstanding the occasional disagreement. Apparently not.

Fitting that the Codex should be the place such naivety is disabused.

 

[ArchAngel]

All of this is normal in EU (except maybe paying for plane tickets).
What kind of shitty country do you live in that you need to put this stuff as a Pro...

Uh, no it isn't. At least here you can be away for 3 days on your own notice. After that you need to have a doctor's note for any days off. That includes dead father.

"Is one week enough?" after you've lost your mother/father.

Sure they can't fire you immediately, but you can't just go off grid and deal with the issues without actually having a doctor write you for the sick days or you will be in some trouble.

Yes but in USA there is no such thing as doctor writing you a note that prevents your employer to fire you. It is in employer right to tell you "Buhuhu, your daddy died. Go back to work!"

 

[ArchAngel]

This whole thing is sad.

When, years ago, I got to go to the WL2 launch on the Codex’s invite, I was struck by how kind and decent and friendly were the whole group of famed RPG developers (many were there). I’d basically had nothing but positive impressions of the folks I’d worked for in the game industry previously; they weren’t all brilliant (many were) but they were all basically well intentioned and nice. Meeting all the folks I idolized, I found them to be just as likable but also strikingly talented.

And, as I’ve mentioned before, I was no less struck by the decency and generosity of my colleagues on TTON.

Yet this whole thread suggests that my positive view was a luxury of being an offsite hobbyist dabbling in games without having to actually be part of the process. Whatever the facts here, there’s no denying the unhappiness among people I’ve always admired and always assumed to be close colleagues and friends, notwithstanding the occasional disagreement. Apparently not.

Fitting that the Codex should be the place such naivety is disabused.

Or there was enough alcohol at that event everyone there was unusually merry

 

[Quillon]

OMG, no senior women in senior positions? Call the femquisition!

They've since promoted Dini McMurry into Senior Level Designer role. Femquisition cancelled

Ain't Carrie Patel a Lead? (Lead != Senior?)

 

[Tigranes]

Where did PJ get this? Did I miss the bit in the interview? I only saw the bit quoted above by AwesomeButton.

Might want to read MCA's other posts before completing your analysis

Indeed. I know about his old comments on NDAs in general, but on non-competes, the 'right to work on RPGs' part - I was wondering if that's it or if I missed something else, because it's pretty damn vague. A 6 month non-compete, for example, is pretty standard. If they wanted something more draconian, then it would be shitty. But we don't know, yes?

He has stopped being a mod a long time ago.

I guess you can take the Obsidian mod status away from a man but you cannot take away the man from the Obsidian mod status.

I've posted here long enough that people with a brain will judge what I say. I have always ranted at length about morons who care about defending a company's reputation or being 'loyal' to a company. When they make games I like, great. When they don't, fuck it.

It's also very amusing that people think being a forum moderator takes a lot of time or effort or 'loyalty'. I remember random morons shitposting about how Obsidian HATES WOMEN BECAUSE THERE'S A MISOGYNISTIC BACKER MEMORIAL or whatever, then when you delete their posts, they send you a 100 page essay about how you are BLINDED BY YOUR LOVE OF THE COMPANY. I write reviews for the Codex now, does this mean I am LOYAL to the Codex and all my opinions are automatically correct

 

[AwesomeButton]

This whole thing is sad.

When, years ago, I got to go to the WL2 launch on the Codex’s invite, I was struck by how kind and decent and friendly were the whole group of famed RPG developers (many were there). I’d basically had nothing but positive impressions of the folks I’d worked for in the game industry previously; they weren’t all brilliant (many were) but they were all basically well intentioned and nice. Meeting all the folks I idolized, I found them to be just as likable but also strikingly talented.

And, as I’ve mentioned before, I was no less struck by the decency and generosity of my colleagues on TTON.

Yet this whole thread suggests that my positive view was a luxury of being an offsite hobbyist dabbling in games without having to actually be part of the process. Whatever the facts here, there’s no denying the unhappiness among people I’ve always admired and always assumed to be close colleagues and friends, notwithstanding the occasional disagreement. Apparently not.

Fitting that the Codex should be the place such naivety is disabused.

I can only speak of what I imagine it's like, but what I imagine is it's just another software development project, only with much more complexity, tight schedules, huge budget, high risk and stress, creative people, talented and not so much, but with much ego. Basically all the worst parts of software development, only multiplied, and with much artistic requirements and concerns added in top.

 

[ArchAngel]

He has stopped being a mod a long time ago.

I guess you can take the Obsidian mod status away from a man but you cannot take away the man from the Obsidian mod status.

I've posted here long enough that people with a brain will judge what I say. I have always ranted at length about morons who care about defending a company's reputation or being 'loyal' to a company. When they make games I like, great. When they don't, fuck it.

It's also very amusing that people think being a forum moderator takes a lot of time or effort or 'loyalty'. I remember random morons shitposting about how Obsidian HATES WOMEN BECAUSE THERE'S A MISOGYNISTIC BACKER MEMORIAL or whatever, then when you delete their posts, they send you a 100 page essay about how you are BLINDED BY YOUR LOVE OF THE COMPANY. I write reviews for the Codex now, does this mean I am LOYAL to the Codex and all my opinions are automatically correct

That is a bad comparison because as a mod on Obsidian forums you must follow Obsidian forums posting rules. It does not matter if those people are right or not if they break the rules with those posts and it also does not matter how you feel about the issue.

But I do remember how you defended every little thing about PoE during and long after release, both here and on Obsidian forums.

 

[Prime Junta]

Or there was enough alcohol at that event everyone there was unusually merry

Doesn't work like that. Alcohol is an affect amplifier. If the vibes are good, it makes them even better. If there are hidden resentments, somebody's leaving in a Black Maria, ambulance, or hearse.