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Codex Review RPG Codex Review: BATTLETECH

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Infinitron, Jun 16, 2018.

  1. Kalarion Learned Patron

    Kalarion
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
    I liked the review, it's good you put the disclaimer of never having played TT up front. In this case I believe lack of experience with TT is a detraction from a really excellent review, because from the beginning HBS framed both the Kickstarter and the game's development around capturing the "feel" of the tabletop experience. This is an instance where a game deserves exactly the kind of contextual scrutiny that would normally seem like sour grapes, or petty nitpicking. Unfortunately resident TT BattleTech expert Cael didn't have time to play the game and come up with a more thorough bitch-slapping for the Codex, what with losing all that time screaming in the BT thread :D.

    oasis789 would you mind giving a quick rundown of what that mess of mods does? The idea of continuing play in a modified environment is somewhat appealing but... that's a long list.

    I would personally emphasize that HBS really nailed the Mech Lab. I loved tinkering with 'mechs and trying out my own custom loadouts within the constraints given by tonnage and hardpoints.

    On the other side I would emphasize how horrifically HBS failed in terms of actually making a good strategy game. Over time your field of strategic and tactical options dwindles, rather than expanding.

    Still a good read though. Thanks sser!
     
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  2. Indranys Savant

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    Quite an informative review, thanks man. :salute:
    Another goddamn unity game.
    Fuck.

    Back to Megamek + MekHQ with against the bot campaign I guess.
     
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  3. Ismaul Arcane Patron

    Ismaul
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    Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    [​IMG]

    :salute:


    Overall, sounds like a hugely disapointing game. I shouldn't have backed it.
     
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  4. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    Cael
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    More like I don't have the time due to Fallout Tactics and real life. And I didn't want to give the shysters a single cent. But most importantly, I don't want to spend any portion of my life on an obvious vomitous abortion trainwreck. I don't watch Disney cartoons for a reason and I didn't watch the Disney Star Wars for a reason.
     
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  5. Zed Duke of Banville Arcane Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
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    Considering Battletech is an overwhelmingly combat-focused game, the review didn't spend much time discussing combat and its severe flaws (e.g. called shots, knockdowns, lack of movement penalties). Tactics are quite limited because concentrated fire to quickly destroy the enemy one 'mech at a time is always the best option.

    It also didn't sufficiently stress the horrendous optimization of the game, such that despite the relatively simple graphics it runs sluggishly even on expensive, new computers. Ironically, one of the two bugs mentioned in the review actually improved the game, since it results in some difficult missions where you're outnumbered due to enemy "reinforcements" already on the board, while the review neglected to mentioned a potentially game-ending bug where time stops advancing properly.

    More could have made of the poor quality of the writing in regard to plot and dialogue, but these issues pale in comparison with the flaws in Battletech's fundamental gameplay and with the game's horrific performance issues.
     
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  6. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    Cael
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    If you need that many mods just to play the game for the first time, then the game is not worth your time, now, is it?

    You will note that every one of the review's critiques are about things that people can easily wave away (the crap writing, etc.). It never mentions the fundamental flaws in the game: the lack of tactical options, the exceedingly bad mechanics, the crappy performance, the way they kicked the lore in the ass which invalidates the whole setting in ther first place.

    These are things that no mods can fix. They are the fundamental pillars of the game. You'd have to redevelope the whole game to change them.

    Unfortunately, that would run counter to his recommendation at the end, which would, of course, send Shillarytron into a tailspin.
     
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  7. Saulot Novice

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    It should probably be mentioned that this game was originally proposed on the kickstarter as a multiplayer skirmish tactical game primarily.
    Everything else since then has been tacked on, and it certainly feels that way. Ironically, the core MP skirmish part has been a mostly dead scene.

    Besides that, I'll say the review is mostly on point though a bit too generous. My personal complaints focused on the following:
    Show Spoiler
    The pilot skills are incredibly stupid (bulwark is nonsensical and OP, morale bar and tac skill can give you a ~17% chance to headcap, etc.).
    The weapons are unbalanced (lrms and med lasers > anything else).
    The dialogue and story is mostly crap (shame considering interesting chars in Shadowrun games).
    The encounters lack sufficient variety, and the maps are too small (sometimes causing you to stumble upon two lances at the same time at <500 meters).
    The encounters don't make sense in the periphery, but enjoy fighting hoards of quarter/half armored mechs through the campaign.
    The salvage system is far too simplified. Same with critical hits (you can't crit engines, gyros, actuators, etc.)
    There are some very iconic (pixie, warhammer, marauder, etc.) and some not so iconic (assassin, javelin, crab, hatchetman, etc.) mechs missing.
    The 3d pilots are the opposite of aesthetic.
    There are no vtols or infantry even though the periphery game is perfectly suited for it.
    The campaign is extremely railroaded and it's unfair to call the campaign about being a real 3025 mercenary.
    The strategic game is far too easy. Zero tension = another missed opportunity.
    The camera work is terrible. Regular pauses, forced zoom ins, and strange angles (sometimes inside terrain or clipping through the ground or buildings) make playing it at anything other than double speed a pain.

    There's no minefields, no aerospace airstrikes, no artillery, no setting of terrain on fire, no satellite scans or sensor sweeps, etc.
    No hovertanks or vtols. No infantry or APCs. No boats. No urban maps.
    All things that were already available in Mechcommander over a decade ago.

    All there is is just mechs, wheeled and tracked vehicles, and weapon turrets. More heavy and assault mechs than you can shake a ppc at, even though you're mostly in the middle of nowhere at the edge of the Innersphere.

    There are also obvious oversights, like landing a lance of mechs using a leopard on a pirate moon base and telling them to knock out the heavy anti air defenses. I guess the leopard has magical ECM or something.

    Lastly, this is more of a jab at Paradox than HBS, but they bundled one of the backer rewards that I paid for (the shadowhawk and atlas skins) to be tied to logging into paradox accounts even though a completely DRM free option was listed on the kickstarter.


    Overall, I'm rather dissatisfied with the game and shouldn't have backed it when I did.
    It was released prematurely, right now it's a poorly optimized, content sparse, deeply flawed beta that needs another six months of serious love care and attention.

    I can only hope and imagine that modding will eventually make it all worthwhile, due to the incredible autism attention and devotion of the BT fanbase.
     
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  8. Gecos Learned

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    The most annoying 2 combat bugs I've noticed so far:

    1. enemy mech fires at you then you down it, then you think, ah, ok, I can use the rest of my mechs this round to blow up his CT or legs but no, it gets up and fires at you ... 2 movements in one turn, like phases 3 and 1;
    2. sometimes (move too fast, switch between mechs to fast, don't know) you get locked out and can't do anything other than withdraw - at least I got an achievement for a faithful withdraw the first time this happened.

    For performance, I'm already restarting every 2hrs and making sure to not be over 10 saved games. Plus I sell as much bloatware equipment and mechs from storage as I can to keep those lists down to a minimum.
     
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  9. Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis

    Darth Roxor
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    lmao
     
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  10. Bocian Arcane

    Bocian
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    Not surprising, the Codex name must be giving them fits at the very sight of it.
     
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  11. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    WTF, there's nothing ~controversial~ in the review. Can you ask why it was banned?
     
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  12. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    It's from a prestigious magazine known for its right wing rhetoric.
    I'm only half joking, too. Don't be surprised if that were the actual reason.
     
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  13. Gylfi.Fenriz.Conquests Augur

    Gylfi.Fenriz.Conquests
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    not me. I'd probably find it repetitive.

    I'd like a battletech complete simulation... a deus ex of it

    (sorry, i forgot to push reply)

    *spectating the brawl from outside* Don't you think the codex guys sometimes loose themselves in boring details they forget to simply ask for a game with more content?
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
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  14. PanteraNera Savant

    PanteraNera
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    I really tried to force myself to finish the game, I couldn't.
    The story and lore-fuck-ups (and I am not very knowledgeable about BT TT) killed a lot of the fun for me.
    Especially missions that tried to make me care for a "character" I didn't cared for at all (repeatedly).
    Dialog options are absolutely boring with no choices at all.
    What killed it for me was that the maps (freelance missions) and fights get repetitive and boring.

    I was neither hyped for the game nor did I dislike it before playing it, I started playing the game indifferent.
    The first 10 hours very really nice and I was optimistic but it got worse and worse and worse.

    I like X-COM: UFO DEFENSE and Jagged Alliance 2 (two of my top 3 games) and also to a lesser extend Fallout Tactics.
    I liked the writing and story of Shadowrun Dragonfall for a "modern game".
     
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  15. Grotesque ±¼ Patron

    Grotesque
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    Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Battletech is a shitty game which screams "missed potential".
    After a few hours when the glitter dust blows past away, the ugly head of retarded design decision show its ugly head.
    Buy it at a 75% discount only.
     
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  16. Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis

    Darth Roxor
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    Also, when it comes to the asskissing, one thing I find particularly jarring is that Darius has sceptical quips for most side contracts you do for the Arano restoration ("this sounds like propaganda", "I don't believe the mission of mercy thing for a second", etc), but never actually says that out loud.
     
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  17. Mark Richard Prophet

    Mark Richard
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    His stock response seems to be dependent on the mission type of side contracts. Harebrained Scams never bothered to include different responses for the Arano Restoration, leading Darius to question his employer's motives despite having no such reservations within the main campaign itself. This can lead to Darius spouting off about Arano Restoration propaganda in a side mission to mop up Directorate soldiers, after having just liberated a Directorate concentration camp on the same world in the main story. Clearly he's a holocaust denier.
     
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  18. sser Arcane Cuck Developer

    sser
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    Focus fire in a tactics game? Outrageous. How would you fix that aside from making use of the LOS for hull downs and side-shots, adding combined arms, bringing variation to the maps, making use of said maps instead of fighting in a corner of it, fleshing out maps like making terrain matter and having terrain react in ways that affect tactics (like smoke from forest fires), adding friendly fire and scattering shots, making more 'long-march' styled missions that would occasionally highlight BATTLETECH at its best, getting rid of the morale system and replacing it with tactical options so as to arm both you and the enemy with better tools, and oh wait I talked about all of this and more. My assessment of the game's problems is not that focus firing is the maximum way to kill enemies. That's way too shallow an assessment as far as I'm concerned.

    BATTLETECH has a lot of things in play that other tactics games do not - it simply needs to make use of them to their fullest. This is in part why I named that first portion "selling bottled water in a desert," because that's what this is. A crisp glass of water for the thirsty, but it's still just water. I'm sure most folks are content with things the way they are, but I played better years ago and with more variety and complexity. BATTLETECH has the foundation to turn into something wicked and so I hope this review helps in that regard, instead of mindlessly jerking the game off while throwing in a critical bone about "slow turns."



    As for Unity...

    "You called Unity a piece of shit whose physical manifestation would be an amalgamation of melted graphics cards. I don't think this was a sufficient enough articulation of its problems." :lol:



    As for the writing... I felt I was quite thorough. To each their own.
     
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  19. gaussgunner Arcane

    gaussgunner
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    Punishment for the author's wrongthink? :salute:
    I haven't forgotten that time the SJW brigade hounded him out of a job. I assume they still hold a vendetta. It wasn't that long ago.. yeah, September 2017.. over some mildly un-pc 6-year-old codex shitposts. lol.
     
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  20. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    Cael
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    You have never programmed in your life, have you? The flaws of the HBS game is in the very root of the entire programme. We are talking about the actual baseline mechanics, not weapon damage or heat produced or whatever. In order to undo these flaws and fix the problem (i.e., all of the things you mentioned in terms of tactical stuff), you will have to rewrite the entire programme. There is nothing mods or tweaks can do to create the kind of thing you spoke about. You are talking about trying to put the DnD 3.5 multiclass system into AD&D while you are stuck with the AD&D experience tables, to use a DnD analogy.

    The HBS game cannot be a foundation for anything wicked so long as those flaws are present and those flaws cannot be fixed without basically making it not the HBS game anymore. It. Is. Fucked.
     
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  21. Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis

    Darth Roxor
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    considering the morphs shadowrun went through from oc to dergonfall to ding dong, i dont see how battletech is completely impossible to improve
     
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  22. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    Cael
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    Completely new game, as I said. Not a mod or a tweak.
     
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  23. gaussgunner Arcane

    gaussgunner
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    It's not that hard to change mechanics if you're the developer. If modders can't do it, at least HBS can. Whether they will is another question.

    And the changes they made throughout the Shadowrun series were not improvements in my book.
     
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  24. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Is that really the case or are people just afraid to post it? Paradox gave us a review key. :M
     
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  25. lightbane Arcane

    lightbane
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    Seeing that the Kingdom Come guy nearly had his career sabotaged by angry SJWs, it's this as well as Codex not being PC enough. Speaking of: Someone should post pics of that blatant tranny pilot that was also associated with failure.
     
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