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Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Pillars of Eternity II - It's Pretty Alright

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,172
Prime Junta, I've attempted to replay P1 after Deadfire and found it unbearable to even look at.

You get used to the numerous improvements in the sequel quite fast, and after that point there's no going back. Lack of multi-classing and bland itemization, that alone makes P1 a no-go. How many times you can replay it using the same 5 items with the same classes that you already know inside and out. Impossibru.
 

Alpan

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
1,340
Grab the Codex by the pussy Pathfinder: Wrath
Prime Junta's "downfall" was predictable. The next step will be reconciliation where he takes PoE I off the pedestal and concedes that DF, a game he has sunk more than a hundred hours into, might have more merits than he originally deemed it to have.

I am flabbergasted by other opinions stating that PoE I's plot had actual depth or impact to it. Are you serious? How did PoE I "pressure" its players in any way? The story was completely inconsequential! DF is better for not taking itself so seriously.
 
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Self-Ejected

Safav Hamon

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 15, 2018
Messages
2,141
I didn't love PoE1. I thought it was okay considering it was a new IP and very experimental, but it's not a game I ever plan on revisiting.

Deadfire is a HUGE improvement and I will replay many times. I even thought most of the writing was good too, although I agree that the main plot and romances are iffy. Its biggest problem is the same as PoE1, which is that there's still a lot of untested and experimental features/ideas, but I think given a chance to make PoE3 it could turn out to be a masterpiece.
 
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Flou

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
869
Location
Hellsinki
My feelings all in all, after sinking a good couple hundred hours into this? I'm kinda done with this "IE-style" sub-genre. There's only so many times you can romp through a colourful setting swatting monsters without it getting old, regardless of the twists.

As to Deadfire specifically, the loss of attrition drives the nail into the coffin, turning gameplay into a monotonous grind of pressing the same awesome-buttons over and over again -- and this, just after PotD in the P1 expansions figured out how to design gameplay so this doesn't happen.

This game is good for what it is, but what it is frankly ain't worth much anymore. The formula has been wrung dry. This is much better than P1, but that won't cut it anymore: P1 came into a world where there had been almost nothing IE-like in years. It felt new. I was willing to cut it a lot of slack for that. DF isn't new. It's more of the same, only better executed, and while it's improved in a large number of small ways, it's dumbed down in a small number of big ways that hurt it. This is McBaldursGate2, with all the rough edges smoothed out and made palatable to people who can't handle weird curve balls.

So objectively, side by side, Deadfire is clearly much better a game than Pillars 1. But subjectively, I think I'll be replaying P1 a fair few times in the years to come... Deadfire probably not so much. Pillars 1 had a freshness, roughness, and newness about it the same as the original IE games did. Deadfire is a re-tread of safe slam-dunk ideas, kind of like a studio remaster of Obsidian's greatest hits that squeezes all the life out them. It isn't shit. It's just mediocre. And I really am pissed off that the root cause of the mediocrity is so unnecessary: Josh's obsession with fixing what isn't broken and pandering to goons who won't even finish the game anyway, at least not at anything harder than story mode.

I'm partially with you on this. I definately enjoyed IE games and I've had fun with Tyranny, Pillars and Deadfire, but at the same time it's too much of that same thing over and over again.

Three back to back games with the same engine and all three in fantasy setting kinda takes out the freshness that came with Pillars. I'll gladly play the DLCs for Deadfire and beat the megabosses, but at the same time I'm not really expecting 3rd Pillars game or Tyranny sequel. Maybe in 3-4 years I might be ready for such game, but right now, nope.

I'm not against all of the changes they made for Deadfire, but the game was just too damn easy after all the tinkering Sawyer and his system designers did. The game had 1 fight that was actually hard, few challenging ones and rest didn't really challenge you at all.

Deadfire isn't a bad game or even mediocre, it's good, but it could have been much better and like Pillars I bet it will be a lot better once they are done with it. I just don't see myself playing through the game again.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
whereas DF reads like a careful job by a team of mediocrities
Yeah, some people concider a lot of BG or IWD mediocre. Deadfire at some places (like companions) falls to Dragonspear level. Which is about as low as lowest modern Bioware level.

Which is, pretty goddamn low and below what I would concider "mediocre". PoE1 biggest fault was it was dull/disorganised/pretentious with multiple writers pulling it to different directions, Deadfire is actually retarded at places.
 

Chippy

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
6,066
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
"The writing in Deadfire drops more balls than a juggler with Parkinson’s"...

And right there I'm willing to bet you have a sentence wittier than anything writen in the game.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
6,818
Location
Mouse Utopia
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
The appeal of PoE firstly is only for IE "enthusiasts". Does PoE 1/2 accomplish anything beyond being a bad IE clone? Does it create a new exciting world, new exciting characters? New exciting mechanics? New exciting stories?

I don't think so. So, mediocre.
It added really good shadows and lighting!
 

Lambach

Arcane
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
12,811
Location
Belgrade, Removekebabland
The appeal of PoE firstly is only for IE "enthusiasts". Does PoE 1/2 accomplish anything beyond being a bad IE clone? Does it create a new exciting world, new exciting characters? New exciting mechanics? New exciting stories?

I don't think so. So, mediocre.

Deadfire tries, and sometimes even succeeds, in being a lot more than a simple IE clone, just by the fact that a fair number of quests have non-combat, skill-based solutions available to them. Deadfire also has a substantially lower amount of trash combat than IE.

With writers who weren't hired to fill a diversity quota, a proper combat resource management system and some more polish, Deadfire could've been one of the best RPGs of the decade. But alas....
 

Sherry

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
404
Location
Shrine of Compassion
Hi.

Gosh!

This was a nice read to come across during my morning coffee (afternoon because we all slept in today after getting home late from our camping trip). Still had to skip over the story part because I am still playing the game and not even the new expansion yet. I will be resuming my game shortly and wanted to say thanks for your time in reviewing. Don't forget to vote it for goty here too when the time comes *clinks*
xBh1PWa.jpg


Thanks,
Sherry
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
So, this is SOZ 2.0 with shitty writing and broken challenge progression?

On, man, that is a hell of an endorsement!:lol:

Anyway, wake me when Obsidian decides to make a sequel of their better expansion... ehhh, actually not, not interested into reading pages worthy of descriptions of how Myrkul's skull is shiny or how Kaelin is a lesbian aasimar.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,442
Deadfire, in my opinion, does not hold up as just a combat game to continue playing it



I understand why Josh got rid of attrition (it makes the level designers' job way easier because they always have a rough idea of what power level the party is at and with it most players just rest-spam anyway)

The genre (IE-style RPGs) never had developer imposed attrition, it was all self-restraint by players.
 

Diggfinger

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
1,202
Location
Belgium
So "it's pretty alright™" is the new black on the RPG Codex website, huh?
Not quite as edgy as "it sucks potato-sized turds", is it?
Whatever happened to "we hate everything you love!"! ???!!!!?
:stunned:

Should this trend of softness continue, I'll consider switching to RPGWatch instead
:smug:
 
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Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,471
Should this trend of softness continue, I'll consider switching to RPGWatch instead
:smug:

A strange way to announce you're coming out of the closet, but, hey, we understand - sometimes you just gotta follow your dreams :D
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,264
I get the impression that the combat isn't as boring and the character development as inconsequential as in the first game? Might be worth the try. On the other hand, the writing being even worse...I can't decide. Herp me, Loxolu-chan!!
 

Bohrain

Liturgist
Patron
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
1,447
Location
norf
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Design-wise Obsidian's approach to attrition is strange.
The ship has the morale, food and drink meters, but they are literally meaningless if you know they exist. I actually went slightly below 50% morale once, but it was solely because I hadn't yet realized that I have to move food from the general inventory to ship inventory.
Same thing with wounds. They only matter if you fumble a CYO segment and get thrown into a fight immediately, but even then it's just slight general stat decrease instead of a strong specific weakness that would force you to approach the fight differently like complete silence, immobility or being unable to engage. Since food and resting is always available without any penalty like limited time or potential random encounter, it's basically just busywork.
I'm personally not fan of attrition since I have strong tendency to hoarding, which usually makes the experience just unenjoyable. But Deadfire delivers rarely on the individual encounter design (though it feels like it does it more than the first game) and general hard readability of the fights further lowers the quality of the experience.
 

Arthandas

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,380
Ok, the combat is shit so it's not for combatfags, but the story is also shit so it isn't for storyfags either. Who is this game for? Regular old-fashioned faggots?
 

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