Review RPG Codex Review: Tyranny - Kyros Demands Better

[GloomFrost]

Yeah man I still remember when i made a diplomat/mage without putting any points into physical attributes and still managed to pass every athletics/subterfuge tests. How was that possible?? Even in the DA;O you couldnt use some weapons or pick some dialogue lines if your stats were not high enough. Jesus Obsidian could they fuck up so badly???

Do you use companions? Because you can use your companion's stats for all out of conversation skill checks.

I dont think you could use your companion's stats for the dialogue checks.

No, but you can use it for certain map checks.

You can use your companion stats for dialogue checks. In the sense that it always uses the highest score in the party.

That is just retarded and doesnt make any sense. I mean its good when companions speak their mind and have impact on the dialogues but what obsidian did is just awfull.

 

[Prime Junta]

Yeah. The no friendly fire thing is another big minus. If they wanted to make it less micro-intensive, then keep FF, make the AoE attacks punch really hard, and give them very long timers. You could use them once, maybe twice in an encounter and would have to consider when is the most effective time to do so.

 

[Excidium II]

No Friendly fire makes the game slightly harder since the enemy AI will just go all out with those. Enemies seem to ignore lore requirements (asymetrical systems yay) and use spells like that annoying frost knockdown field right under their buddies.

Granted game's easy enough it doesn't matter but I'm not sure that was their intention.

 

[Fenix]

If you have to have cooldowns, then have fewer abilities with, perhaps, longer cooldowns, but make them genuinely impactful, and make it so that you wouldn't use them just because the timer wound down. Again, if there is such a thing as cooldowns done right, then DA:O is the closest example I know of. It's hard enough that managing your consumables becomes significant, which gives it a degree of strategic resource management.

Underrail.

 

[Leechmonger]

It sounds like an uninspired, insipid game aimed at similarly under-achieving people.

 

[hell bovine]

If in Act 2 and 3 you get some reedeming writing that gives you insight how the bickering Archons are characters and not stereotypes, I'd happily eat my own words: but I did not saw the beginning of an "interesting power dynamic of immortals ruling a bronze age empire". I saw two cartoon villains screaming at each other in a tent with their colour-coded bodyguards.

If you didn't like the writing in act 1, you won't like the writing in act 2. The conflict between those two factions makes sense (idk where you got that they are immortal; they aren't), though, as it is implied that Kyros wanted for this to happen and that this is a war long in the making. The archons have outlived their usefulness, so one (or more) have to go.

The real problem with the plot is that it never goes anywhere. There are some interesting tidbits about the connection between edicts, spires and magic in general, and then the game just ends.

 

[Dayyālu]

The Scarlet Chorus is nothing like Caesar's Legion. Its internal logic is completely different. Did you miss that bit with the kid conscript? How they deal with desertion? How come the Disfavored want to raze a village and kill everyone in it, while the Chorus doesn't? What the consequences are of having many of their recruits be Tiersmen? How the whole conscription racket actually works, in practice?

Bunch of low tech barbarians that integrate forcefully the conquered. They are the same basic concept. If you think that the throwaway mission where you get to force a village to join the Chorus or the scared kid in their camp give them nuance instead of repeating again "Bunch of low tech barbarians that integrate forcefully the conquered."? I don't know. You are engrossed by such useless trivia? They make good writing? They are merely trivia, and trivia about a derivative fantasy world.

I'm starting to wonder if we're not talking about drastically different concepts regarding writing. Many DMs build detailed worlds, but that does not make them interesting. Tyranny's world is not interesting. It could have been, of course, but it's not. Terrible fantasy novels waste hundreds of pages on detailing dresses, and Tyranny wastes dozens of lines repeating the same concepts like Morrowind NPCs.

That's why a single short story by Clark Ashton Smith is better than the endless chatter of Robert Jordan.

There's also a lot of subtle stuff about how the civilians experience life under the occupation: what they think of the Disfavored, the Chorus, the Bronze Brotherhood, or whoever else happens to be in charge. There's a lot of stuff there; they just don't shove it in your face, you have to actually be interested and look into it. Talk to people. Read stuff. That sort of thing.

"Subtle"?

The writing is so repetitive and naive it makes kinda difficult to be interested in red guys and blue guys. Pardon, red guys, blue guys and purple guys. Again meaningless trivia is good writing? I'm not an english native and my own english isn't top-tier, but Tyranny's writing is kinda plain. You don't get bored reading it? You find it good on a stylistic level? I mean, it's very.... dull. Is dull the correct word? When something is so bland that you can't care less? I'm not requesting Homer, I'd like something on the level of KOTOR2 or NV.

It's not like Dark Souls (a ARPG! Heresy!) where you find a piece of the plot by carefully exploring the world and the items. Tyranny is "Hit highlight button, check all highlighted areas, get to NPCs, end NPC dialogue, ohgodhalfofthedialogueisstuffIvealreadyseentwentytimes".

 

[Excidium II]

Bunch of low tech barbarians that integrate forcefully the conquered.

That's where the similarities end.

They are also extremely regimented, xenophobic and devoted to their leader like the disfavored. So both factions are like the Legion in a way.

Legion is just a lot more nuanced faction, don't compare them.

 

[felipepepe]

I don't make this stuff up. That's the impression that I've gotten, and it's hardly a positive one. Lackluster combat design and cut corners are bad things. "But you didn't say the game is totally hated!" Well, it isn't. I know what pure Codex hate looks like and this isn't it.

You can only hate what you once loved. I played 60+ hours of PoE on multiple difficulties and wrote several walls of text about it because it had a lot of potential, but fucked really badly on some stuff. The result was something I wanted to like, but kept being disappointed.

Tyranny is just bad. From the way it (doesn't) introduces its world and expect you to care by just throwing encyclopedias in your direction, to the dumb cooldown-based combat made of filler encounters and the "babysit these two drama queens" plot, I couldn't last more than 3 hours. First RPG I bought and refunded.

That's not a return to form for Obsidian.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm not sure I'd agree with that, but for the record I was obviously being tongue-in-cheek with the "return to form" thing

 

[oneself]

If in Act 2 and 3 you get some reedeming writing that gives you insight how the bickering Archons are characters and not stereotypes, I'd happily eat my own words: but I did not saw the beginning of an "interesting power dynamic of immortals ruling a bronze age empire". I saw two cartoon villains screaming at each other in a tent with their colour-coded bodyguards.

If you didn't like the writing in act 1, you won't like the writing in act 2. The conflict between those two factions makes sense (idk where you got that they are immortal; they aren't), though, as it is implied that Kyros wanted for this to happen and that this is a war long in the making. The archons have outlived their usefulness, so one (or more) have to go.

The real problem with the plot is that it never goes anywhere. There are some interesting tidbits about the connection between edicts, spires and magic in general, and then the game just ends.

Paradox games tend to get better with more DLCs

The writing is so repetitive and naive it makes kinda difficult to be interested in red guys and blue guys. Pardon, red guys, blue guys and purple guys. Again meaningless trivia is good writing? I'm not an english native and my own english isn't top-tier, but Tyranny's writing is kinda plain. You don't get bored reading it? You find it good on a stylistic level? I mean, it's very.... dull. Is dull the correct word? When something is so bland that you can't care less? I'm not requesting Homer, I'd like something on the level of KOTOR2 or NV.

On a pure difficulty level (Flesch-Kincaid or whatever) the writing of Tyranny sits above that of NV and KOTOR2, so I don't truly understand your gripe about the writing being "plain", unless to you the complexity in writing goes beyond mere word choice and sentence structure. Perhaps a more apt description of your feelings would be "distant", in which case I would agree.

 

[felipepepe]

I'm not sure I'd agree with that, but for the record I was obviously being tongue-in-cheek with the "return to form" thing

Well, I'm just stating my personal opinion, not claiming it's a Kodex Konsensus, so you agreeing or disagreeing doesn't change it.

Also, "tongue-in-cheek" comments like that are really just a way of throwing out statements you don't wanna back up. For people who love the Obsidian of Alpha Brotocol and F:NV, you give them the impression this is just like those games. If someone says that Tyranny is much inferior, then you can claim you're just being tongue-in-cheek. 9/10, Edward Bernays would be proud.

 

[Bester]

I don't mean to sound weird, but this shit looks exactly like the globalist brainwashing that went on for a year. Same tune, same lies, everything.

 

[vortex]

Edit: additionally, don't be afraid to spike difficulty. One of Tyranny's big problems is the uniform and inverted difficulty curve. The fights are really repetitive. Just doing the same thing every time will win. Even the boss fights are all more or less the same. Again, contrast this with DA:O -- there are optional encounters all over the place which will kick you in the nuts hard if you go after them. This shakes things up and gives a real sense of accomplishment when you beat them. That one revenant in the Brecilian woods if you go after him early for example? That there is a good fight.

Pillars have come far with updates so Tyranny could also flesh out gameplay for the good.

 

[Prehistorik]

I've read the verdict and it feels like it is written by a bot.

 

[Excidium II]

Edit: additionally, don't be afraid to spike difficulty. One of Tyranny's big problems is the uniform and inverted difficulty curve. The fights are really repetitive. Just doing the same thing every time will win. Even the boss fights are all more or less the same. Again, contrast this with DA:O -- there are optional encounters all over the place which will kick you in the nuts hard if you go after them. This shakes things up and gives a real sense of accomplishment when you beat them. That one revenant in the Brecilian woods if you go after him early for example? That there is a good fight.

Pillars have come far with updates so Tyranny could also flesh out gameplay for the good.

(Assuming pdox wants to pay for post-release support for over an year)

 

[DeepOcean]

Edit: additionally, don't be afraid to spike difficulty. One of Tyranny's big problems is the uniform and inverted difficulty curve. The fights are really repetitive. Just doing the same thing every time will win. Even the boss fights are all more or less the same. Again, contrast this with DA:O -- there are optional encounters all over the place which will kick you in the nuts hard if you go after them. This shakes things up and gives a real sense of accomplishment when you beat them. That one revenant in the Brecilian woods if you go after him early for example? That there is a good fight.

Pillars have come far with updates so Tyranny could also flesh out gameplay for the good.

Won't happen for low effort B game from PDox.

 

[Ippolit]

Question regarding the review itself:

First this:

The otherwise excellent writing falls a little flat when it comes to companions.

Then the explanation:

You command a party of four, and have a roster of six to draw from. All but one represent a faction, and will serve as sounding boards for your thoughts as well as giving advice on how to approach them. While they have fully-developed personalities and back stories which unfold through long downtime conversations with them, they’re not as immediately relatable or even likable as you might hope. Partly this is due to power relations. Your position as judge, jury, and executioner of Kyros’ law, and in some cases conqueror and slavemaster, will necessarily put a certain distance between you and them. Whatever the reasons, they are a bit of a grim bunch, and don’t do much to lighten the mood of dark and bloody Terratus.

That honestly doesn't sound bad at all. Companions i don't like or can't relate to don't necessarily suffer from bad or flat writing. Can't see the little flat aspects in your paragraph. Am i missing something?

 

[duanth123]

I'm not sure I'd agree with that, but for the record I was obviously being tongue-in-cheek with the "return to form" thing

TFW when you know the rough consensus of everything except your own reputation.

 

[Fairfax]

this review is so amazing it managed to push out the codex's best reporter in favor of a watcher

well done

Wait, Bubbles is no longer part of the staff?

 

[Shilandra]

Question regarding the review itself:

First this:

The otherwise excellent writing falls a little flat when it comes to companions.

Then the explanation:

You command a party of four, and have a roster of six to draw from. All but one represent a faction, and will serve as sounding boards for your thoughts as well as giving advice on how to approach them. While they have fully-developed personalities and back stories which unfold through long downtime conversations with them, they’re not as immediately relatable or even likable as you might hope. Partly this is due to power relations. Your position as judge, jury, and executioner of Kyros’ law, and in some cases conqueror and slavemaster, will necessarily put a certain distance between you and them. Whatever the reasons, they are a bit of a grim bunch, and don’t do much to lighten the mood of dark and bloody Terratus.

That honestly doesn't sound bad at all. Companions i don't like or can't relate to don't necessarily suffer from bad or flat writing. Can't see the little flat aspects in your paragraph. Am i missing something?

Im actually not quite sure where this sentiment is coming from in the first place.
I didn't really notice any distance between my pc and my companions due soley to my position as fatebinder, at least not when building loyalty or just talking to them. They actually felt a little to chummy, to the point where when you get almost to the end and they basically run out of things to talk about their lack of blinking dialogue box is immediately noticeable.

There's more formality and distance if you're building fear, at least where intros and some dialogues are concerned. Otherwise you're pretty much best pals with them.

 

[Roguey]

I might be reading too much into some coincidental vague statements, but I believe this review annoyed an Obsidian employee and her friends.

Which system designer - Nick Carver? I don't see him on Mobygames, he's a newbie who did QA on Pillars before this.

Maybe Excidium means the project director, Brian Heins.

Kevin Jordan, WoW guy http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/tyranny-release-thread.111973/page-45#post-4841187

For people who love the Obsidian of Alpha Brotocol

Alpha Protocol was loathed by anyone who wasn't an Obsididrone when it was released. Give it time. It's definitely a return to

This will probably sound really bad, but I don't think most RPG designers actually think about gameplay -- especially not core gameplay. I think this is due to a few problems: first, some gamers (and even some game devs) view gameplay as a chore. They are quite vocal about wanting to pursue the story and characters more as a choose-your-own adventure novel than as an integral part of a role-playing game. Because of this, designers often focus on the creative aspects of RPGs to a fault -- essentially letting the core gameplay elements fall by the wayside. The result is, unsurprisingly, worse gameplay that even more players are loathe to engage.

 

[felipepepe]

I'm gonna out-Roguey Roguey here with an even better Sawyer quote:

I believe that game designers, whether working in the RPG genre or otherwise, should establish what they want the player to be doing within the world. That is, they must ask themselves what they want the core activities of the player to be. Within those activities, the designer can find ways to allow growth over time in a variety of ways. How they want that growth to occur and what sort of choices they want to force the player to make -- that's what should drive the design of the advancement/RPG system.

Instead it usually seems like most designers sit down and say, "Well what are the ability scores going to be?"

That's 100% what I felt playing Tyranny. "We're making this game with this setting and all this C&C and stuffies, now someone just glue a IE-like gameplay or something to it."

 

[Bohrain]

Bunch of low tech barbarians that integrate forcefully the conquered.

That's where the similarities end.

They are also extremely regimented, xenophobic and devoted to their leader like the disfavored. So both factions are like the Legion in a way.

Legion is just a lot more nuanced faction, don't compare them.

One thing that bothered me was that the whole Disfavored being cunts to non-northerners felt really tacked on. There's some really minor stuff like some of them calling tiermen mouthbreathers, but I was left with a feeling that the writers had no idea how to write characters that genuinely hate strangers.

 

[oneself]

Bunch of low tech barbarians that integrate forcefully the conquered.

That's where the similarities end.

They are also extremely regimented, xenophobic and devoted to their leader like the disfavored. So both factions are like the Legion in a way.

Legion is just a lot more nuanced faction, don't compare them.

One thing that bothered me was that the whole Disfavored being cunts to non-northerners felt really tacked on. There's some really minor stuff like some of them calling tiermen mouthbreathers, but I was left with a feeling that the writers had no idea how to write characters that genuinely hate strangers.

Should've gotten some Kodex input for that, though Obsidian don't have the ballz to be edgy like us.