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Community RPG Codex Top Non-RPG PC Games RESULTS!

Discussion in 'RPG Codex News & Content Comments' started by felipepepe, Apr 4, 2020.

  1. Reality Educated

    Reality
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    MDK[​IMG]
     
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  2. Humanophage Arcane

    Humanophage
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    [Boring explanation mode: the first list is more useful if you wouldn't vote for many action games, the second list is useful if you would vote for many action games. See extended lists in the file. The rank gaining lists are a useful heuristic for discovering new games that fit your style in this dichotomy because they include the less-high ranking games that end up as extreme cases. E.g., Rimworld or Close Combat 2 end up greatly boosted in the first list and Devil May Cry 3 or F.E.A.R. in the second.]

    That's a fun top, but I am perplexed by ye olde shooters being so high. 1 man = 1 vote is a sham. Why should we give equal consideration to these nostalgic twitchy voters as to true aristocrats of the soul who value perennial non-actiony classics for the mind?

    I fixed this situation by weighting votes according to a non-actiony ('brainy') score, based on what fraction of your top-200 vote went to non-actiony games (see methods). There is also a separate 'actiony' score and top if you are the action-loving sort, based on the proportion of your votes that went to action or part-action games. Note that a non-actiony gamer may still like some actiony games and vice versa. Some games that are not actiony are actually better liked by actiony persons in relative terms, like Age of Empires II.

    [​IMG]

    Method:
    Show Spoiler

    Games are classified into 'actiony', 'intermediate', and 'brainy' based on their genre - the emphasis is on the biggest culprits like FPS, so sorry if you think some smaller genres are misclassified. It's unclear if stealth games like Hitman are action games to the same degree as e.g. Quake, so they are given an intermediate score.

    actiony = action, action adventure, FPS, platform
    intermediate = stealth, survival, survival horror, MMO
    brainy = all others

    each user gets a 'brainy' score = [points for non-actiony games]*1.5 + [points for intermediate games]*0.25 + [points for actiony games]*0 divided by [total points for top-200]
    each user gets an 'actiony' score = [points for non-actiony games]*0 + [points for intermediate games]*1 + [points for actiony games]*1.5 divided by [total points for top-200]

    points are weighted based on your 'brainy' score for a separate 'brainy' top
    points are weighted based on your 'actiony' score for a separate 'actiony' top

    example: you're a brainy grognard with a brainy score of 1.3 and you gave 5 points to X-Com, so it counts as 1.3*5=6.5 points for it in the brainy ledger. If your spent the bulk of your vote on action games and your brainy score is low at 0.1 and you give 5 points to X-Com, then it counts as 0.1*5=0.5 points for the brainy ledger. On the other hand, if the brainy 1.3 user still insists on voting for Quake and gives it 5 points, then it counts as 6.5 points. This way, you can also see which actiony games still appeal to brainy people. (Same principle for the actiony ledger)


    Greatest non-actiony rank gainers:
    Show Spoiler

    130 Rimworld
    129 Sid Meier's Colonization
    118 Kerbal Space Program
    109 Victoria II
    108 Close Combat 2: A Bridge Too Far
    105 Silent Hunter III
    104 Caesar III
    104 Europa Universalis III
    103 Fantasy General
    103 Startopia
    102 Myth II: Soulblighter
    94 Master of Orion
    92 Europa Universalis IV
    90 Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic
    87 Day of the Tentacle
    87 Invisible Inc.
    86 XCOM: Enemy Unknown
    84 Dune II: The Building of a Dynasty
    83 Transport Tycoon Deluxe
    81 Civilization V
    80 King of Dragon Pass
    80 SimCity 4
    78 Warhammer: Dark Omen
    75 SimCity 2000
    75 Factorio
    70 Civilization III
    68 Sacrifice
    67 Myth: The Fallen Lords
    67 Football Manager
    66 Beneath a Steel Sky
    66 Slay the Spire
    63 XCOM 2
    61 Primordia
    61 X-COM: Apocalypse
    59 Pharaoh
    57 Disciples II: Dark Prophecy
    57 Theme Hospital
    56 Command & Conquer: Red Alert
    56 Life is Strange
    55 Panzer General
    54 Tropico
    53 Civilization
    53 RollerCoaster Tycoon
    52 Dwarf Fortress
    52 Age of Wonders
    51 Lemmings
    50 The Walking Dead: A Telltale Games Series
    50 I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream
    49 Worms: Armageddon
    49 Elite


    Greatest actiony rank gainers:
    Show Spoiler

    161 Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening
    152 Resident Evil 4
    151 Yakuza 0
    139 F.E.A.R.
    121 Pathologic 2
    120 Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
    114 Sleeping Dogs
    110 Alien: Isolation
    110 Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
    105 Crysis
    105 Dishonored 2
    103 Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven
    102 Dark Messiah of Might & Magic
    102 Mark of the Ninja
    101 Hitman: Blood Money
    100 Thief: Deadly Shadows
    100 SWAT 4
    97 Mirror's Edge
    96 Unreal
    91 Resident Evil Remake
    89 Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
    88 Hollow Knight
    88 Prince of Persia: Sands of Time
    85 Return to Castle Wolfenstein
    85 Assassin's Creed II
    84 Bully
    79 Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
    78 Dishonored
    78 Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne
    78 SOMA
    75 Batman: Arkham Asylum
    74 BioShock
    74 Unreal Tournament 2004
    70 Rayman 2: The Great Escape
    70 Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
    65 Hotline Miami
    65 Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis (aka ARMA: Cold War Assault)
    63 Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
    62 Age of Mythology
    59 Darkwood
    58 Outcast
    55 Hitman
    54 S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat
    54 Subnautica
    51 Syndicate
    51 Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun
    47 Beyond Good & Evil
    46 Terraria
    42 Gabriel Knight 1: Sins of the Fathers
    41 Star Wars: Jedi Knight II - Jedi Outcast


    Full file:
    Show Spoiler
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14K44Tv6xn64jV_5ixLHPTsIsYHhmEO11vdHzjg5SZYM/edit?usp=sharing

    Sorry about the lazy formatting - just look at the BRAINS and ACTIONY sheets. Note that the top-1000 is also calculated, but I think it's too noisy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
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  3. croitav Educated

    croitav
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    Votes for Wolfenstein 3d were counted wrongly. 4 people votes for it each with 1 point = 4 points.
    And yet according to results there were 5 people and 7 points.
    Why?
     
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  4. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    If people really want the ranking to matter (which, yeah, it currently obviously is all over the place, but I agree that's not the point) wouldn't the easiest solution to just have another poll where Codexers rate from 1 to 5 whatever games in the top 200 (or 250, or 500, or whatever) that they've played and then look at the Bayesian average (i.e. the way Codex's GOTY polls work)? I'm not a statistician, but it seems like it would great rid of a lot of the wonkiness.

    felipepepe
     
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  5. Kalin Arcane Zionist Agent

    Kalin
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    Pirates! is a CRPG hybrid.
     
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  6. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    The biggest change that brings is allowing people to down-vote games. Combined with having a pre-existing ranking, means that people would "game" their votes A LOT.

    And not just bombing Life is Strange, doing that would push people who think Max Payne at #18 is bullshit to maybe give it a 1/5 or 2/5 just to "fix" this issue, for example.

    Besides, this is a top game list, in theory none of them are 1/5 or 2/5. The biggest issue is the MASSIVE number of entries x the relatively small number of people voting. We would need like 2000 people voting to make this be more coherent. OR do another round, same rules, this time just with the Top 200 games. Still, same issue about gaming the vote would apply.

    selkin gave it 3 points. It's on the sheet, all 5 votes are there. WTF are you talking about?
     
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  7. Alpan Magister Patron

    Alpan
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I like adventure games as much as (if not more than) the next Codexer with a soft spot for story-faggotry and underdog game genres, but I genuinely can't understand how it is possible that Life is Strange is ranked so highly, and I liked Life is Strange!

    I'm curious more than anything else. I wonder if any of its voters will show up here to discuss their preference...
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
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  8. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    Yeah of course. I was thinking that people would vote honestly, but of course people, and especially Codexers, are dicks. Thanks for the time you’ve already put into this.
     
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  9. Drowed Arcane

    Drowed
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    If you torture the statistics enough, they'll confess to anything.

    Any voting system will, by definition, always affect the results in some way. The rules you choose in the way you collect the data will undoubtedly deviate your result in some way. The question is, always, to analyze how this deviation will occur and try to compensate in the best possible way.

    Every system will always have "holes" that can be abused by people for various reasons. If you allow anonymous voting, people will vote several times to affect the results. If you allow negative votes, people will vote negatively en masse to lower the score of some specific game. If you limit the number of votes, people will be forced to abandon amazing games because the number of votes is limited, and so on. The point is to accept that any list is more a "vague suggestion" of a group's preferences than a really reliable representation of reality.
     
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  10. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    The hall of shame: SausageInYourFace, Arvennios, Joni Odin von Hassenstein, NicholasAH

    That's all it took, just four people.
     
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  11. croitav Educated

    croitav
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    • hopw roewur ne x 2
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  12. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
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    If nostalgia could kill, this picture up there would be a mass murderer.
     
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  13. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    But it was. Such is life.
     
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  14. baud Cipher Patron

    baud
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    There's also rusty_shackleford, even if he voted after the deadline, his vote seemed to have been taken into account, since there's 5 votes for life is strange.
     
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  15. Geisler Educated

    Geisler
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    Congratulations the list made it to reddit, be sure to to read the comments for your daily eye cancer inducement.
     
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  16. Lady Error █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron Literally Hitler

    Lady Error
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    red-what?
     
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  17. baud Cipher Patron

    baud
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    Posted by J_C, it seems.
     
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  18. SausageInYourFace Codexian Sausage Patron

    SausageInYourFace
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    Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I find it funny that people are so butthurt about this game specifically while unabashedly voting all these dumb popamole shooters into top positions.

    :popamole:

    And I find it hilarious that the vote is apparently so shameful that its insinuated I am in hiding now or something.

    I loved the game and that's never been a secret, I have made like an essay length post in the resident LiS thread back when I finished the game. No need to justify it any further than that. (Short answer: It made me feel feels.)
     
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  19. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
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    At your service.
     
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  20. croitav Educated

    croitav
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  21. DJOGamer PT Arcane

    DJOGamer PT
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    Calling Life is Cringe a game is big fucking strech.
    LS is bad and you should feel bad.

     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
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  22. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    At #203, NOT on the Top 101 list, meaning that people do not in fact consider it an RPG, since it got rated much higher now.

    But whatever, you clearly just want to be butthurt.
     
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  23. Gregz Arcane

    Gregz
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    Please link the reddit thread.
     
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  24. Lady Error █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron Literally Hitler

    Lady Error
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    FTL is at #203, so it's not actually in the Top 101 RPG list.

    And neither is it a clear-cut RPG, more like a hybrid.
     
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  25. Wunderbar Arcane

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