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Incline RPG Codex's Top 50 cRPGs - Results and Reviews

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Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It only takes a dedicated man to make something good. Nice job felipepepe :salute:

Hey, the objective was to take out the popamole games of the list. Why the Witcher 1 and 2 are in the top 50? I suspect a potato conspiracy in here.

Both parts of Witcher are great, if you are a storyfag. Dragon Age, on the other hand, felt to me like a game with great potential, but in the end it was boring and mediocre. A couple of nice quests and C&C, but it was too long and I wouldn't put it on this list.

Oh, and Morrowind is higher than F:NV. Suck it down Roguey :martini:
 

felipepepe

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And personally, I see nothing wrong with downvoting. Any game has its flaws, and a flaw isn't simply an absence of merit.
Again, that's cute in theory, but most down-votes would certainly be due prejudice or trolling, not actual flaws.

Games that people either love or hate, like Alpha Protocol, would be squished between 8/10s and 1/10s, giving them a low average score. You punish the rough gems that are interesting, and reward the mediocre games.
 

Ravel myluv

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And personally, I see nothing wrong with downvoting. Any game has its flaws, and a flaw isn't simply an absence of merit.
Again, that's cute in theory, but most down-votes would certainly be due prejudice or trolling, not actual flaws.

Games that people either love or hate, like Alpha Protocol, would be squished between 8/10s and 1/10s, giving them a low average score. You punish the rough gems that are interesting, and reward the mediocre games.

True. And as much as everyone hates Bioware and Bethesda here, I don't think the 0/10 that Dragon Age or Morrowind would certainly get are deserved.
 

Gregz

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DBSO9mI.png


I find it interesting that the Codex "Golden Age" (1997-2004) began during the sea change across all AAA publishers to corner the "MMORPG Gold Rush" that Everquest and Ultima Online uncovered, UO (1997) and EQ (1999), and ended one year after WoW was released (2004).

6a01116904785f970c015392048190970b-800wi


Other factors include the introduction of bit torrent in 2001

traffictrend2.gif


And the surge of next-gen console sales peaking in 2004

Video_game_console_marketshare.gif


There's no doubt these factors contributed heavily to the post 2004 decline.
 
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V_K

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Games that people either love or hate, like Alpha Protocol, would be squished between 8/10s and 1/10s, giving them a low average score. You punish the rough gems that are interesting, and reward the mediocre games.
Any kind of voting system prefers "solid mediocrity" over "flawed gems". The only way to offset that is to manipulate counting in some way.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Gregz The Codex "Golden Age" is almost an accident of history and could easily not have happened. Interplay was already going against the reigning industry trends of the time by releasing single player isometric RPGs with 2D graphics. If Brian Fargo and Feargus Urquhart were a bit more popamole, the RPG genre as we know it might not have existed.

V_K A rating system wouldn't work because, even if there was no trolling or edginess, every person has his own personal scale of what the ratings mean. One person's 7 isn't equivalent to another person's 7. You know how all the Web 2.0 sites went from 5 star rating systems to "Like"-based systems? There's a reason for that.
 

V_K

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V_K A rating system wouldn't work because, even if there was no trolling or edginess, every person has his own personal scale of what the ratings mean. One person's 7 isn't equivalent to another person's 7. You know how all the Web 2.0 sites went from 5 star rating systems to "Like"-based systems? There's a reason for that.
You (and probably felipepepe too) are reading my comment too literally. All I'm saying that the current list becomes much more interesting if sorted by average vote, and thus a "how fond a player is of a given game on average" criterion would probably be a better way to measure a game's merit than a "how many people are fond of a given game", no matter weighted (as in current poll) or not (as in previous ones). I'm not suggesting an exact method to calculate such a figure.
 

felipepepe

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V_K, here's the list ranked by averages:

kbWXGcC.png


While it is very interesting, it's a fact that is heavily distorted by games like Star Trail... the less votes a game has, the easier he gets a higher average.
 

Deuce Traveler

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
I actually like this second list by averages better. It puts Dragon Age and KOTOR further down, and the Ultima games, Jagged Alliance 2, and Quest for Glory IV further up.
 

Delterius

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While it is very interesting, it's a fact that is heavily distorted by games like Star Trail... the less votes a game has, the easier he gets a higher average.

Given the nature of the Codex, I think this is a strenght of your voting system felipe. This is a forum with a news page, not the other way around. There's no 'central authority', be it the 'reviewers' or 'journalists' of the staff, that dictates their taste as though its the whole community. It is a melting pot of different ideas and all it takes for something to happen in here, be it a review or a especially made votes, is for someone to make a thread about it. If a small group of people who actually like the kind of game Star Trail is gives it a high score then its no different from a poster you know recommending you a game.
 

V_K

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While it is very interesting, it's a fact that is heavily distorted by games like Star Trail... the less votes a game has, the easier he gets a higher average.
Well, since Start Trail is one of my 5-pointers and generally the best gmae eva, I wouldn't exactly call it distortion.... :troll:
 

buzz

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I don't know felipepepe, that list looks pretty dope:thumbsup:.

Try using the bayesian average:
(C*m+R*v)/m+v

C - the general mean (I guess that would be 2.5 in our case)
m - minimum number of votes (say 30 or whatever you want)
R - the average score for the particular game
v - total number of votes for the game

My math is a bit rusty so I don't remember it exactly, but this is what some websites with lists/ranks use.

edit: I see you also have the release date in your spreadsheet. Would you mind making two or more lists by "ages"? Before 95 and after 95 would be good enough I think.
 
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Doctor Sbaitso

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Good stuff. Nice to see Gothic 2 in the top-10 where it belongs, and that QFG managed to crack the list. Though it does always surprise me how much people around here love Morrowind.

I have to say that it pains me to see some true genre defining classics overshadowed by newer, arguably derivative games.
I don't know that derivative necessarily equates to inferior. Just because something is defining in its genre doesn't mean that everything that comes after it is inherently worse. I would have a hard time arguing that Ultima I is better than 7, for example.


Icewind Dale ranking higher than Ultima7 and is Dark Souls ranking higher than Ultima Underworld are better examples. There are others.
 

I_am_Ian

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According to this list Wizardry 8 has the best combat and character development in any RPG ever. It's also the highest rated turn and party based game on the list.

It's only number 10 because it wasn't made for those with a short attention span (mentally challenged).
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
According to this list Wizardry 8 has the best combat and character development in any RPG ever. It's also the highest rated turn and party based game on the list.

It's only number 10 because it wasn't made for those with a short attention span (mentally challenged).
Fallout 1/2 and Arcanum all have turn based combat and parties

:troll:
 

felipepepe

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Try using the bayesian average

lugXflp.png


Very interesting results, but I still prefer the one in the OP. Deus Ex went from #11 to #37, quite weird...

edit: I see you also have the release date in your spreadsheet. Would you mind making two or more lists by "ages"? Before 95 and after 95 would be good enough I think.

6nILQs5.png
 

Mortmal

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Try using the bayesian average



Very interesting results, but I still prefer the one in the OP. Deus Ex went from #11 to #37, quite weird...

edit: I see you also have the release date in your spreadsheet. Would you mind making two or more lists by "ages"? Before 95 and after 95 would be good enough I think.

6nILQs5.png


This looks better i think, completely different eras with their own merits. Maybe next time there will be a post 2013 chart as well, starting with grimrock.
 

V_K

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Try using the bayesian average:
(C*m+R*v)/m+v

C - the general mean (I guess that would be 2.5 in our case)
m - minimum number of votes (say 30 or whatever you want)
R - the average score for the particular game
v - total number of votes for the game
If I'm reading this formula correctly, it means that games with few votes and low average would significantly improve their standing. I'm not sure I agree with such concept.
 

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