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RPGs then vs RPGs now

Space Satan

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Just wanted to accumulate as much memes about it in one thread as possible because I constantly fforget where I've stored them them
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Falksi

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Without a doubt the "imagination gap" played a big part in the charm and immersive hook of the older games. Folk often rightly slate "hand-holding", but it's easy to focus on how that waters down the challenge & exploration aspects, and forget how much damage hand holding also does to allowing the player to create their own story.

I mean look at Dragon Age 2. What a fucking travesty. I need to be told how I feel when I choose an option? WTF? Surely the whole point is that I give the response by imposing my own emotion on things? If the option is there to say "Stop messing around" I could be saying that with a smile "haha Stop messing around :) " , or I could be saying it like a cunt "Stop messing around you fucking twat", or I could be saying it disapointedly "Come-on, don't let me down, stop messing around" etc. etc.

Point is that gap allows my imagination to decide. How the other characters who you say things to react is irrelevant because their reaction is their reaction and equally as valid regardless. THAT's what shapes the relationships, THAT's what reflects real life. If I say "Stop messing around" in a light hearted way, but they react defenisvely "oh fuck off you bossy twat" then emotionally I may think "what a nob end, they're out my party". There-in lies the natural shaping of things.

It's basic shit, and the devs are fucktards for not getting it.
 

SausageInYourFace

Angelic Reinforcement
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Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
I mean look at Dragon Age 2. What a fucking travesty. I need to be told how I feel when I choose an option? WTF? Surely the whole point is that I give the response by imposing my own emotion on things?

And how would that even be possible in a game with highly detailed characters and voice acting?
 

Darth Canoli

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It's easier to find 3D graphic designers than an artist with something interesting to offer.
Besides, the masses wants the best up to date graphics so that's where the money is.
To optimize the sales, you need something most people would buy, that's what we get, most of those 3d so-called RPG are RPG sodas, computer coca cola, you drink that shit, you play it too.
 

Swampy_Merkin

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Up Yours!
Who gets emotionally involved with any character

OK autist, let me explain something that us normies take for granted. One of the functions of art is to elicit an emotional response from the audience. Storytelling is an art-form; video games are one medium of that art-form. Therefore, video games can, and sometimes should, cause the "player" to have an emotional response to (or even involvement with) the story and/or character(s).

But you can just sit there and drool on you fidget-spinner faggot....if that's what gets you off.
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
OK autist, let me explain something that us normies take for granted. One of the functions of art is to elicit an emotional response from the audience. Storytelling is an art-form; video games are one medium of that art-form. Therefore, video games can, and sometimes should, cause the "player" to have an emotional response to (or even involvement with) the story and/or character(s).

But you can just sit there and drool on you fidget-spinner faggot....if that's what gets you off.
Swing and a miss.

The whole "videogames are an art" meme aside, it applies to a game itself. Not characters within it. Only weeaboo millennial faggets get emotionally attatched to characters in RPGs.
 

Yosharian

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Grand Chien
OK autist, let me explain something that us normies take for granted. One of the functions of art is to elicit an emotional response from the audience. Storytelling is an art-form; video games are one medium of that art-form. Therefore, video games can, and sometimes should, cause the "player" to have an emotional response to (or even involvement with) the story and/or character(s).

But you can just sit there and drool on you fidget-spinner faggot....if that's what gets you off.
Swing and a miss.

The whole "videogames are an art" meme aside, it applies to a game itself. Not characters within it. Only weeaboo millennial faggets get emotionally attatched to characters in RPGs.
You haven't ever cared about a character in an RPG?
 

Falksi

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Wtf is an imagination gap?

Some feminist bullshit about wymyn only having 71 cents of imagination?

:lol:

It's the space allowed by true quality peices of art & entertainment, that gives the viewer/user/etc. the freedom to impose & involve themselves.

It isn't just entertainment, it runs through every walk of life (e.g. relationships are often cemented by what each person tells themself they have found in that relationship)

A good example is the original Star Wars. You're given a nice basic gist & explanation of the force & the surrounding religion & events, but you're given loads of space to fill in the gaps for yourself. Personally I always viewed Anakin Skywalker as a younger, more agressive version of Han Solo when I watched the OT. I had him around the 20-24 stage in my head when Obi Wan was describing him. Now that might be stupid/plausable/spot on/etc. with others, but the main thing is the film gave me the space to find my own creations amongst it's own.

That's why having everything explained in extreme detail, having everything revealed, and closing the space to allow imagination to work by imposing things such as pre-generated protagonists is often as harmful as it is beneficial.

Hawk was way less interesting than my Grey Warden, simply because I connected with my Grey Warden way more as I'd created them both in the game & in my head.
 

Edija

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Gothic 2 - Commander Garond - Made by PB

Oh, you came from Khorinis and you're a Militiamen, fuck you, you still gotta obey my orders, I'm still a paladin commander and therefore you will obey me.
Oh, you came from Khorinis and you're a Merc, you work for money you greedy fuck, go do this for cash, you have to do it anyway since you need my letter.
Oh, you came from Khorinis and you're a novice/mage (can't remember fuck you), will you help us out your highness?

Gothic 2 - Commander Garond - If made by Bethesda

Oh, you came from Khorinis and you're a Militiamen, there is this cave with mudcrabs in it. Go there and kill them.
Oh, you came from Khorinis and you're a Merc, there is this cave with mudcrabs in it. Go there and kill them.
Oh, you came from Khorinis and you're a Mage, there is this cave with mudcrabs in it. Go there and kill them.

Also you're the grandmaster of the Arena, head of the mages guild, head of the fighters guild, the head of the Dark Brotherhood, the Dragonborn, slayer of Dragons, the main proponent of the Rebellion, the guy who saves the world, the greatest thief in the land, a vampire who fucked a werewolf, and I acknowledge nothing of that since there is no ingame system of actually giving you any immersion. So kill these mudcrabs, fuck your full Deadric armor set what is that even supposed to mean?
 

NotAGolfer

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Divinity: Original Sin 2
"R" "P" "G"s now:
rM8o4Hi.jpg
Ok ... I don't get it. What's so bad about that particular example? I mean I don't even know which game this is from, the only nu AA RPG I played is D:OS.
But this doesn't seem bad at all, makes me want to find out more about delemgans, what the guy was up to and if there was someone else there.


Also I don't dig Caesar's speeches in Fallout NV.
What is that greater good he's talking about? Can you ask him in the game or not? Because if not or if his answer is bullshit like "creating a neat and orderly new civilization and monuments for the ages" then fuck him. Either he goes full circle and wants to create a place where people can live a happy live (since he is against a market economy + democracy sth like Moore's Utopia or even sth outright communist comes to mind) or he can shove his rant against individuality up his pompous arse.
 
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Fedora Master

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Ok ... I don't get it. What's so bad about that particular example?

Nothing in particular, except its wall-of-text nature. There are much worse examples in Pillars of Eternity. That's the problem though, while AAA games are getting dumbed down the supposed saviors of the genre all confuse endless blocks of text and run-on sentences with good writing.
 

Lurker47

Savant
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Jul 30, 2017
Messages
721
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Texas
Without a doubt the "imagination gap"
I think the main problem is that newer games lack their own imaginations and want "emotional attachment" over the more meaningful connections you get to an idea or someone's goal.
Id rather have no explanation than a retarded explanation.
This is dumb on many levels.
Also I don't dig Caesar's speeches in Fallout NV.
What is that greater good he's talking about? Can you ask him in the game or not? Because if not or if his answer is bullshit like "creating a neat and orderly new civilization and monuments for the ages" then fuck him. Either he goes full circle and wants to create a place where people can live a happy live (since he is against a market economy + democracy sth like Moore's Utopia or even sth outright communist comes to mind) or he can shove his rant against individuality up his pompous arse.
Why do people who criticize the Legion always have to *ask* about it? It's nowhere near the Institute's level of "lol we ain't telling you shit" Caesar's reforms into a republic can be built upon a strong cultural foundation- the current Legion as described by Avellone is a "completely military organization". Every citizen in Legion territories is not a part of the Legion, they just live under them. Meaning to say, the entire point of the Legion is to expand and build a strongly unified culture.

Caesar's economic views are vague but seeing it as a strictly communist vs. capitalism argument is completely retarded. It's fair to assume a large portion of the Legion that use a barter system are only because they're in lower social standings (direct slaves of the Legion).

Notice how he says the NCR has "lost virtue"- as in he believed it had it before. As far as I can remember, there is not a single line of dialogue that implies that Caesar believes a republic is inherently bad; it's all in reference to the NCR. Same thing with individuality, he says that the NCR is *purely* built upon self interest and no care for the common good. The Legion is the exact opposite. He'll use the Mojave to build an empire and then yada-yada-yada synthesis.

Another thing, Caesar mentions that the NCR didn't initially function as a republic due to its long-term presidencies and this lead to a political disconnect; it "devolved" into a republic. Caesar plans the transition from an authoritarian rule to a less strict republic from the start and it would ideally, happen more naturally and smoothly. This republic would still be over what is essentially a cult built upon the common good.


How is this so hard to understand.
 
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Lurker47

Savant
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Jul 30, 2017
Messages
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Not hard to understand. Just not believable.
It's a cult and Caesar is a cult leader. I look at his actions in the same light as the Master and the Enclave; he's as believable as either of them. Though his philosophy is somewhat poorly contextualized in the hyper-politicized world of New Vegas.
 

NotAGolfer

Arcane
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Divinity: Original Sin 2
Not hard to understand. Just not believable.
This. Plus he completely misunderstood the Pax Romana, he's more Conan the Barbarian than Augustus.
And him saying that the NCR "lost virtue" is about as honest as Trumpists bringing up Hillary's E-Mail server when defending their traitor president. ^^

Then again that might be intended, although I would have prefered if they added a less one-dimensional villain. As I said, Caesar talks too much and none of it makes much sense.
 
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