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S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 is confirmed

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by ESh, May 15, 2018.

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  1. Mikeal Savant

    Mikeal
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    Stalker in earlier version was cRPG. It was changed at some point, but I don't remember why (probably due to FPS gameplay more fitting the game) . You can see Stalker's cRPG roots in inventory, gui etc. in SoC, in later games they were streamlined.
     
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  2. ESh Arcane

    ESh
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    I agree, Pripyat endgame was a major letdown. I did however like how after returning from each mission you'd find a few more members in the camp missing, like a snare slowly tightening around your neck. At the end, you could cut the tension in Pripyat with a knife.

    Thanks for mentioning this, it's good that the mechanical improvements of NV are recognized. Looking at the actual gameplay mechanics, especially with the low HP levels of JSawyer Mod, it's evident that New Vegas would be a solid shooter if the foundation (engine, AI, etc) wasn't what it was.
     
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  3. Tacgnol Shitlord Patron

    Tacgnol
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Nah, this was just a misunderstanding about one of the settings in the actor.ltx file.

    It effects enemy chance to hit over long distances, it has no impact on player shooting.
     
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  4. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    Nah, this is where Obsidian's monocle fell short. If they focused on combat, they could have elevated it to a greater degree gamebryo or not. Hell I may even prove it with another mod one day. I did a fair bit of AI work on Deus Ex as you know and the vanilla poopy AI was primarily limited by how much work was originally given to to it. The chosen engine has an influence but the main thing is simply putting in the time (well, and good design sense is of course required), which the devs have been on paper showing regret for not having done so, even though what they did do was already a shitload of work.

    Yeah the base FO3 design and engine definitely counts for something, but I know it can be made notably better with more focus/time, and don't think it's inherently doomed as a result of being a FPS/RPG hybrid blend of real time skill and stat-based outcomes, the existence of vats, whatever...but then again I love FPS, RPGs, and FPS/RPGs, so of course I don't.
     
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  5. sparq_beam Novice

    sparq_beam
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    I really like this too. I also like how you can find cover in clever places so you can shoot and not expose yourself too much, e.g. by jumping on objects and using openings in the geometry. The double crouch, which seems pointless at first, is useful in these scenarios. It's much more natural and interactive than the usual contrived cover systems in other games, and something that I haven't found elsewhere. The shotguns could have tighter spread, though, and the RPG a faster projectile (most games get these things wrong).

    Sometimes I felt the enemies were a bit too spongy. I think the goal was to avoid having the firefights end so quickly that you didn't experience the usual ebb and flow of stalker combat, such as displacing from cover to cover, looking around to check for flanking enemies, etc. It's a delicate balance. I wonder if increased damage, combined with improved AI, e.g. more capable of taking cover, could solve this problem. This is on my wish list for stalker 2.

    I also hope they keep the artifact detector systems, but remove the more advanced detectors. The crappy Echo detector that only shows distance is the most fun to use, the Veles detector with the dots on the screen makes things too easy.

    Clear Sky might have an RNG element. I'm playing it right now, and I installed Sky Reclamation Project. The README file for one of the optional mods bundled with it says:

    Did they add this in CS?
     
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  6. Major_Blackhart Codexia Lord Sodom Patron

    Major_Blackhart
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    If you did an AI overhaul for New Vegas that would be insane.
     
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  7. Master Arbiter

    Master
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    Ash is a serious decline enabler here. STALKER shits all over NV in every relevant area, what is wrong with you? Does monster placement make any sense in NV? Wtf are all those monsters doing around inhabited settlements? Why aren't they exterminated, decades ago? Stalker has less monsters in it, even though it happens in a for 20 years sealed off, uninhabited, iradiated and mutated area. Further NV doesn't have good "level" design. It has no levels, especially no shooter type levels, just haphazardly thrown about RPG areas that might've seemed logical if they we're looked at from a top down perspective. It's possible this was because of Obsidian being more used to top down mindset when designing them, but the areas just dont work for a FP game. Even F3 was better here, simply because there was less places per square mile. PostApocalypse anyone? And the subway system was at least a good general idea and had a game play function instead of like most dungeons in NV a "storytelling" one. Also adding more shit( crafting items, different ammo types, gun mods) to a game with a barely functioning and tolerable interface is hardly good design. And, why were flat numbers instead of percentage chance in dialogue better?
    :decline:
     
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  8. HoboForEternity In every buttons you press Patron

    HoboForEternity
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    he also needs to completely remap enemy placement and balancing their stats etc, make it more natural/statisticcally static like gothic, borrowing enemy mods to make it more varied, etc.

    Like a raider goons should have always shitty gear that made more dangerous by them using drugs and chems, and casino bodyguards have edge in gear and raw skill and tactics, etc, and soldiers too etc.

    Of course, new Vegas isnt as bad as oblivion, fallout 3 or 4 in that case (like raiders using a fat man or high tech plasma rifle or power armor in fallout 4), most of the time the placement still make sense and their equipments are in the range of "okay" in term of believability, but it would be cool for someone to notch it up further
     
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  9. Tacgnol Shitlord Patron

    Tacgnol
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Probably a misunderstanding by the mod devs of the actor.ltx settings.

    The stalker modding community used to fight wars over what the value did. It took source code analysis to finally kill the argument.

    Personally, I always thought the whole thing was dumb. You could easily disprove it by setting the probability value to 0 and still kill enemies with no issues, enemies on the other hand would be unable to hit you at mid-long distance.
     
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  10. ESh Arcane

    ESh
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    Are you fucking retarded?
     
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  11. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    At least half of this post can be summed up as "It's unrealistic so therefore it's bad".
    I did say Stalker is a bit too concerned with realism for my liking, and New Vegas is a happy medium in that regard. Yes I want theme park world design packed full of interesting content rather than stretches of countryside with nothing much of note in it. Slight exaggeration of course, Stalker does have some interesting content and it's world/level design certainly isn't bad (except the last section of CoP), but I much prefer NV's approach.
    It's a big thing that's wrong with AAA open world games like MGSV or GTAV, though they take it to the extreme: Make a massive "realistic" world and as a result it is not fun to explore, whereas San Andreas was smaller an more densely packed with interesting content every acre, and doesn't give a shit that it's littered with hidden wacky content like a van that once you get in turns into a mini-game with explosive RC helicopters.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
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  12. Master Arbiter

    Master
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    Yes but San Andreas is a city, not a postapocalyptic wasteland. It makes sense it would have content packed tightly.
     
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  13. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    New Vegas takes place more than 200 years after the great war. Not that I care. A world packed with fun interesting content in every crevice > minor boosted sense of realism you'd get from doing the opposite.

    You're free to disagree of course.
     
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  14. Master Arbiter

    Master
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    Then why does it look like a generic PA wasteland.

    Huh? I thought its accepted that chance is better. NV way is not how conversations work.
     
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  15. ESh Arcane

    ESh
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    Not sure if I woud pin Bethesda-developed software on Obsidian, just because they didn't have the time and resources to rewrite it.
     
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  16. ESh Arcane

    ESh
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    [​IMG]

    Does it look like this bloke has 15% chance to deadlift 300kg?
    No, because he isn't strong enough.

    Static checks means characters that put enough points into a stat will clear the appropriate check and characters that didn't, won't. It enforces C&C.
    Non-static checks is the opposite; characters can lift weights they physically shouldn't be able to, or exhibit knowledge in subjects they aren't educated in. It diminishes C&C.
     
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  17. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    Not to mention % chance really doesn't gel well with quicksaving and if a game is to feature free/quicksaving to begin with, then systems have to keep it in mind. A lot of players will game the system if given the chance. It's inherent player psychology to win all challenges and not miss any content, even if that means getting a little scummy as a result of not being given any other choice except to willingly walk away after failing the chance check. Not to mention you'd get XP if you passed a speech check in FO3, further incensing scummyness.
     
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  18. Master Arbiter

    Master
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    ESh Well you said it yourself, "put enough points to clear the appropriate stat". Is this how discussions work? I wish, but it's not true. There has to be a degree of risk to it in order to feel like it's a person on the other side, not a Bethesda NPC. NV aproach is like it was designed by Skynet or a robot like Data from early TNG episodes or an alien who is trying to understand humans.
     
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  19. Stavrophore Learned

    Stavrophore
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    Static checks are stupid, static checks with percentage based gaussian distribution are the way. So you set a a skillcheck at 80, and then if a bloke has 79 skill he has 95% chance to pass, if he has 75 he has 50% chance, if he has 71% chance he has 5% chance to pass and with 70 its 0. That's how it should work since, you don't need exact number to pass, just something close around it, so you wont be mad when your 79 skill character fail a 80 pass check. This is good especially when user plays ironman mode, and not savescum.
     
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  20. Alexander DeLarge Learned

    Alexander DeLarge
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    Many of the biggest games do. Conan Exiles, Squad, ARK Survival Evolved, Battlefleet Gothic Armada, PUBG is getting support soon.
     
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  21. HoboForEternity In every buttons you press Patron

    HoboForEternity
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    again, emphasis on gothic getting the balance right. Gothic 1 is still the apex of open world rpg and videogames ever.

    It is, in its core is a videogame world that let you have fun, but never throw the sense of real place and lives happening inside that isolation chamber (magic barrier)

    enemy placement that creates a progression barrier that feels like a real ecosystem interacting with the specific places.

    If gothic is the perfect equilibrium, mew vegas leans closer to the theme park, but not too far off from the balance, and stalker leans more into the realism, but still not tpo far off.

    Far into the ends of the spectrum is new bethesda ubisoft games type where the whole map is a stage for the players power fantasy, ignoring consistency amd sense, while the other end is probably some kind of ecosystem simulation or whatever that scientists use to collect data in the future where such thing will be possible.

    The key is, like in most games or media really, is maintaining the illusion of realism while being a fun game in its core design.
     
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  22. sullynathan Magister

    sullynathan
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    It's not smaller than MGSV
     
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  23. jarmaro Arbiter

    jarmaro
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    I wonder if it will have any women NPCs or none as previous games.
     
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  24. Wunderbar Magister

    Wunderbar
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    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  25. Vexxt Educated

    Vexxt
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    Oh for fucks sake - so they are still hashing out the story and deciding on gameplay systems at this stage? If that's the case, then 3 years seems REALLY ambitious for a game like STALKER 2.

    On the one hand I'm excited that there is interest in the brand again, but on the other if they don't even have any assets or even a barebones proof of concept then this seems more like 5 years off rather than 3.
     
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