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S.T.A.L.K.E.R. FAQ on what makes an RPG

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by suibhne, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. suibhne Erudite

    suibhne
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    Excuse the Babelfish-style translation, but I found this interesting, particularly the last graf:
    I'm impressed with their thinking - refreshingly correct for an industry which too often ignores my important views. :lol:

    And no, this doesn't mean FO can work in first-person perspective - at least not without abandoning the entire SPECIAL system so vital to the FO setting. :P

    EDIT: I also love this question:
    And this:
     
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  2. Sol Invictus Erudite

    Sol Invictus
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    In Soviet Russia, vehicle drives you. It will be a gruesome entertainment.
     
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  3. Sarvis Erudite

    Sarvis
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    sounds like an Action Adventure game to me... or maybe just action.
     
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  4. Sol Invictus Erudite

    Sol Invictus
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    Or maybe just ...
     
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  5. Ortchel Liturgist

    Ortchel
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    How the hell is that an RPG? Couldn't this same 'logic' be applied to Quake .. or Mario?
     
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  6. Sarvis Erudite

    Sarvis
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    Yep, pretty much.

    But they have a little (gigantic) blind spot in that it sounds like you can affect the plot and have different options for dealing with obstacles. The fact that it sounds like there is little difference in gameplay between this and Quake is apparently of no consequence.
     
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  7. Ortchel Liturgist

    Ortchel
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    It's great they've added dialogue, it's a step forward, but with a dual fps/rpg billing, I expect a lot more. I guess it's too early for legitimate RPG mechanics, but this lip service isn't fooling anyone .. except suibhne, apparently.

    The game to watch out for though is 'Boiling Point', a far more accurately labeled fps/rpg, with factions, skills, dialogue, and none of this BS rhetoric.

    Check it out here. It was also discussed briefly in this thread.
     
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  8. Balor Arcane

    Balor
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    In fact, I agree with the lack of 'trainable' skills in STALKER, provided that we 'take control' of a seasoned, trained man. There is just no room to train them, given the timescale.
    However, what I DO NOT agree with, is the lack of character traits, or some other type of character customizaton. Like, I can choose to be not as strong, (slender frame), but be faster, more stealthy.
    Other guy may choose to be extra strong (once again, it's often an inborn trait) to carry more stuff and be able to use heavier weapons easier, etc.
    That'll allow better replayablity and better roleplay. Too bad they don't seem to take that into account too.
    On the other hand, if they'll have good RP via dialogues (and this game is already as nonlinear as it can be) - it may turn out as a good RPG after all.
    I really doubt that, tho... I'd say that talking/shooting ratio would be like 1%/99%. On the other hand, the promised about 6 different endings (or so, forgetting already), so it'll leave some room to RP after all.
    Well, we'll see. Perhaps they'll deliver good story and dialogues after all... however, that's wishing too much. I, myself, waiting for STALKER as a 3D action, with great graphics, gloomy setting, living world, and atmosphere of Fallout ;).
     
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  9. suibhne Erudite

    suibhne
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    I'm not saying S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (damn I hate typing that name) is actually an RPG; I don't buy that at all. I just found refreshing their viewpoint on the definition of an RPG - mostly the point that stats don't make something an RPG if it doesn't offer real character interaction and the possibility of having a real impact on the gameworld.

    Put another way, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. will probably feature much more important "RPG" elements (particularly from the standard Codex perspective) than, say, NOLF 2 or TRON 2.0 - despite the stat systems in both of those games.
     
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  10. Sarvis Erudite

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    It's a little odd that you claim that character interaction and ability to impact the gameworld don't make a game a CRPG, but also claim it can't be a CRPG without them.

    It's almost as if stats, which can allow for character interaction and impacting the gameworld, are what make the difference. ;)
     
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  11. Ortchel Liturgist

    Ortchel
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    I don't think it's one or the other, I think it's both. The two schools of thought, the 'Final Fantasy' school, which holds that stats alone make an RPG, and the 'dialogue-is-all-that-matters' school, are equally wrong in their extremes, at least that's how I feel.
     
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  12. Sarvis Erudite

    Sarvis
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    Of course, the 'Final Fantasy' school has existing examples that are CRPGs. The other extreme... doesn't.
     
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  13. Fez Erudite

    Fez
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    Unless you consider games like The Last Express suitable for that category.
     
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  14. Sarvis Erudite

    Sarvis
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    Never heard of it... and which category do you mean? Bah.. drunk... but guessing the non-FF extreme right?

    Tell us about it!

    Though I was thinking maybe like those Japanese dating sims or something, but I don't think anyone calls those RPGs.

    I dunno... probably shouldn't drink and post...
     
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  15. Fez Erudite

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    Yeah, I mean extreme in the sense of no stats and all just conversation (and some actions of course). You really end up with a complicated adventure game akin to KGB.

    Here is a review of The Last Express. I suppose it is down to the individual what they consider an RPG (like those dating sims you mentioned that might not have stats and such), as long as it is within reason (no "I play a 'role' as mario so...").

    The Last Express is really worth playing if you haven't yet. It has no stats, just individuals you interact with in an environment and you can develop the plot in a number of different ways to reach various endings. The NPCs go about their own schedules and have conversations and go off to eat and sleep, and so on. You even get daily newspapers with relevant events for the period it was set in. The art style is original for a PC game too, each scene appearing more like a painting than a PC game, though the animation is not the best. It has a main story which will play out on its own according to time and your own actions, so you can even role-play a useless lazy passenger who helps nothing and just wanders around listening to the band and going to the toilet. The other side of this is that you can't sit still and listen in to a conversation all day or play about all you might want on your first go if you are supposed to go somewhere or meet someone at a certain time (in game). I know some people do not like time pressure in games, but it does add a sense of urgency that other freeform games like Morrowind lack. There are no quests or anything, it is more of a highly evolved adventure game than an RPG, due to the lack of stats and not being able to define the PC through them (though your attitude can be expressed through actions and conversation). It is worth playing more than once just to see all the different things you can do and find bits you missed out on.

    ***POSSIBLE MINOR SPOILER***
    I'll not spoil too much as the exploration is half the fun, but it is the only game that I know that lets you play to the end by hiding in a toilet and telling the big baddie to sod off.
    ***POSSIBLE MINOR SPOILER***

    I suppsose you could compare it to some extent with the Monkey Island or LucasArt adventure games, but that wouldn't be doing it justice, as fine as the LA games were.

    The game also sold in tiny numbers, probably as it required a bit of thought to play and didn't rely on particles, bump-mapping or tits and ass to sell it.
     
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  16. Sarvis Erudite

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    I doubt that has much to do with it. Really. Most likely it sold poorly because they didn't market it worth crap. I mean, I've never even HEARD of this game until now! Meanwhile, all the games with particles, bump-mapping and TnA get marketed like a lutefisk.
     
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  17. Ortchel Liturgist

    Ortchel
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    Fish marketing? Where did this expression come from, Sarvis?
     
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  18. Sarvis Erudite

    Sarvis
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    I couldn't think of a good analogy... heh. My roomate used to always use bizarre analogies, and one of the common ones was "like a lutefisk."

    So it might be, "Man! He played that guitar like a lutefisk!" Or some wierd thing like that...
     
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  19. Ortchel Liturgist

    Ortchel
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    Ohh, I see :lol:
     
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  20. Elwro Arcane

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    The Last Express was a great game, I think. I played the demo at least dozen times. Too bad it never got distributed in my country...
     
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