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SaGa Series Discussion

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
14,980
Finally got around to starting a game of this up again. Looks decent enough, though I'd honestly prefer the original assets. Started off as Sarah, picked no weapons, fucked up my chance at a magic crown by gaining a small but useless amount of skillpoints before looking up the mechanic (SaGa Frontier does this so much better) and recruited whatever random shitheads I came across. Nora learning the axe/club stuff since resistance to blunt/slashing is actually a thing so having both types share a weapon skill is cool. Weeb boy and Big Sword Dude dishing out decent damage but have no skills. At least I didn't give them magic so they can get crowns easily. Minstrel and Nora both have like 5 mp so they can cast healing spells. Had pink haired incognito girl for a while too but she started out shit and I started building her into spears/shortswords and she sucked at that too, and at magic. I forgot how constrained the characters are in this game by their starting stats. Did a bunch of random shit, last major excursion was trying to dig through the vampire's basement, but got blocked by a miniboss eventually. Still got plenty of random places to check out, might head back to the desert next, I've gotten a lot stronger since my last attempt there.

I love how important equipment is in this game. Money isn't easy to come by, and the difference between mediocre and good equipment is huge. And you can get immunities to stuff fairly easily as well. I wish magic was easier to get into. Sarah's got a decent pool of MP now, but going from that initial 5 MP to 10 probably took like 10 trips to the inn. Ridiculous. Also, in retrospect, started her with a shit branch of magic. Earth magic is terrible. The basic attack checks against physical defense, the buffs are shit, the healing is overpriced, etc.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
3,640
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
Huh, I LP-killed Tatyanna early in the game and she respawned after like 20 hours. Good for her.

I'm on 2/4 Gate bosses, working on sparking high level techs. Had a harder time with the Green Dragon Ruler, had to beat him with Genbu formation and commander mode, just for some crummy shield. I got Sky Drive so Nora and Black are set. Need the sword and spear ones now.

Hobo Elf What was your final team/build/strat etc?

Earth magic is terrible

The normal earth spells are underwhelming. However... Minor spoiler:

There is a hidden earth spell which does massive single-target damage.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,998
Location
Platypus Planet
Hobo Elf What was your final team/build/strat etc?

Julian (Sword), Nora (Mace), Ellen (Axe), Monika (Fire/Moon) and Boston (MA/Water). I used the formation that you get from recruiting Fairy or Shonen where 3 people are in the front row get +25% melee damage and the ones in the back get -25% speed. Julian was at the Vanguard and I gave him a Suit, Dragon Shield, Royal Ring and status resistance accessories. Basically make him an unkillable tank. Then I just used the best Techs with everyone while Monika just kept spamming Revive on the team. Julian was hitting for 6k damage in a single turn, Boston 5k, Ellen 4k and Nora a lot less but the best Mace Tech debuffs enemy weapon resistances by -50% so that's OK.

I just went full offensive and it worked really well. I think for my next party I want to try to lean more toward Magic, perhaps get in on some of that Fusion Magic stuff too.

Here are some extra notes:

-I could've gotten a lot more mileage out of this had I wanted to give everyone Moon magic and train them to at least have 10 MP so they can use Shadow Servant as well. The damage I could've done with Julian and Boston with it would've been absurdly high.

-Getting crowns with characters is overrated and I wouldn't stress about it. It's a fine bonus for a character if you don't plan on using Magic or Techs with them, but not having one isn't going to ruin the char. My Monika didn't have a MP crown but she had over 130 MP. The -1 MP cost on spells honestly would not have made a noticeable difference. Same with with Weapon Techs, really. Everyone had high SP and no one ever ran out during combat and out of combat there are so many items given to you to replenish them it doesn't matter.
Hybridizing with spells and weapons, especially Shadow Servant for everyone who is a damage dealer, seems to be more optimal.

-Important!! When a character is brought back to life with the Revive spell this counts as that character using a Fire spell!! That means that characters who are not proficient at any magic or have any MP will have their fire magic and MP skill up if Revive is cast on them and they die so that the spell takes effect. This is important to note in case you really do want to for a SP Crown. Weird kink but oh well.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
3,640
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
It exists!

rOZWKZw.jpg
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,998
Location
Platypus Planet
Btw in case people didn't know there's a mechanic called Commander Mode that can be activated by putting your main character in the backrow. It changes how combat works and instead of inputting character commands your main character will be giving general commands and your party will act accordingly, kinda, as each character is more inclined to do the stuff that they have a natural aptitude for. There are some techniques and shit that are exclusive to this feature so it's not simply the same combat but on auto mode. Your party will regen HP and clear most status effects after each turn as well so it can be quite powerful against certain enemies.
Really, the depth of this game is staggering.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
3,640
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
Not only that, but Commander Mode revives the dead every turn as long as they have LP. Too bad most formation combo techs are inferior to individuals using high-damage moves. They look really cool though, and there are some battles where the extra health regen + stat cure + revive just give you the edge you need to outlast the enemies. However the game does pull some shenanigans to prevent you from using commander mode in the final battle UNLESS you picked Sarah as your starting character.

Interesting how they made this right before SaGa Frontier which introduced the "everyone combos everything randomly all the time lolwtf" system. Not sure which I'd say is better. Then there's Last Remnant, where the whole game is basically Commander mode.


I just finished it, final party was Katarina (swords/g-swords), Nora (axes/spears), Sharl (sword/spear/fire/sun), Undine (earth/moon), and Black (axe/wind/moon). Everyone's HP around 800 and SP/MP around 130 (except for Black). I liked Kat, I picked Hunter star for her which made her super fast. She always went first even in heavy armor, and I was able to make up for her lower strength with gear bonuses. However even though I got the Masquerade before defeating an Abyss boss I was not able to access Loanne castle and talk to Mikhail. The guards would not let me pass. What a gyp. I don't know if I took too long or if it's a bug.

In the boss battles all I used were Sky Driver and Doppelslash. I had the 10 Sp Flowers-something Gsword tech but it didn't outdamage Doppelslash so wtf. That move is quite OP. Sky driver was fine but I'm a bit annoyed I never got any better spear techs than Twin Dragon. I swear I've played this game three times before and never gotten the top-tier spear techs ever.

Final party was great except for Black, I remember him being a lot better but it took so long for me to beat Forneus he was very gimped. His SP and MP never caught up to everyone else, his damage never came close to Nora's, and he didn't even spark any special techs before her. I mostly used him as a backup healer. What a waste. I would have been better off with a Robin or keeping Thomas. I switched Undine to Earth late in the game when I got Hypergravity and that combined with Shadow servant did like 5k damage. But she spent so much time in boss battles healing anyway it was pretty pointless in the long run.

Still a really fun game. Now I definitely want to play through Minstrel Song again.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I have Katarina (Spears), Nora (axes), Wood (greatsword), Robin (sword), Undine (just acquired). I'll probably replace Wood with a more magic-oriented character, but apparently characters have generic affinities for certain kinds of magic? How much does that matter? Can't I just shift Undine to Fire, for example?

Running around doing whatever quest I can manage to complete - visited maybe eight or nine towns, on the way to 100m in Wall Street, just got Vanguard moving. I think everybody only has around 250HP - I have no idea what determines sparking so am just letting things happen.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
3,640
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
characters have generic affinities for certain kinds of magic? How much does that matter? Can't I just shift Undine to Fire, for example?

Some characters are forbidden from unlearning their specific magic or have high chance of increasing skill level in certain magics + high chance of of boosting MP. Undine receives a bonus to Water magic growth but there's nothing stopping you from switching her, she just won't go up as fast. You can still grind her up in any other magic school with enough time and she'll be just as good because her MP and Mag are high.
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,420
I dont know why square enix did not release this with a turbo mode. All you do in this game is kill mobs. It isn't like frontier or last remnant where you got pretty visuals and a story to keep you interested.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,512
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I have finally been able to seriously play RS3. I'm 3 hours in. Found Gon and now grinding just a little bit at Archfiend's palace. Sparked some good techs for Khalid, Minstrel and Ward. My party is slowly shaping up to be able to manage to withstand some tougher fights. I'm thinking about going to Kyrdul or whatever it's called. I have some unfinished business with that goddamned boss.
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
4,930
So who's ready for SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions next week (Tuesday, Dec. 3rd)? Surprised there isn't an English Steam page up for it, but I guess it's par-for-the-course for Square-Enix's PC related marketing team: abysmal.

I thought I'd need a little more of a break between RS 3 and Scarlet Grace, but I'm actually feeling excited about it anyway. Looks great from some longer gameplay videos I've watched of it, even though I'll miss area exploration, like in towns and dungeons. I wonder what it'll be priced at. I'm guessing around $30.
 
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Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
The power curve in this game is a bit odd. It was all good fun, finding new techs, killing mobs in more efficient ways, getting stuck in a difficult area and fighting uphill, etc. But you get to around 400-500HP? and most importantly start finding later game equipment, and basically all of the non-boss enemies are complete KOTOR2 level borefest mash-A-to-win pushovers.

So then you end up just vacuuming the remaining sidequests/etc by instakilling mobs then figuring out a strategy for the bosses. It's not too bad, since you can easily dodge 90% of mobs, but it feels like the power curve is a bit too compressed relative to the amount of available content.

Still, overall a nice fun game. Not much story or setting or whatnot but a well put together romp.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,998
Location
Platypus Planet
My body is ready. I don't get series burnout / fatigue easily, especially with Saga.

The power curve in this game is a bit odd. It was all good fun, finding new techs, killing mobs in more efficient ways, getting stuck in a difficult area and fighting uphill, etc. But you get to around 400-500HP? and most importantly start finding later game equipment, and basically all of the non-boss enemies are complete KOTOR2 level borefest mash-A-to-win pushovers.

So then you end up just vacuuming the remaining sidequests/etc by instakilling mobs then figuring out a strategy for the bosses. It's not too bad, since you can easily dodge 90% of mobs, but it feels like the power curve is a bit too compressed relative to the amount of available content.

Still, overall a nice fun game. Not much story or setting or whatnot but a well put together romp.

If you like the game but want something that will keep you on your toes throughout the entirety of your adventure then you should move on to Romancing Saga 2 next. That game is brutal and has more depth in its combat and equipment systems.
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
I hope it's more like Saga Frontier 2. Easily one of the best PS1 titles. Just wish they stuck with the spritework, it suits the artstyle much better than the 3d stuff.
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
4,930
I've never gotten a cheap or smartphone game vibe off Scarlet Grace. I mean, it's 3 years old and originally developed for the PS Vita, so there is that.

I think the comparison to Unlimited is definitely apt though, but with more freedom. It looks like a mix between Unlimited and an SNES era SaGa to me. A lot of the content seems to be involved with world exploration, freedom of movement, character progression, and an in-depth combat system with a focus on strategy. I'm ok with the different approach myself, but can see why it wouldn't be for everyone. But in no way have I looked at the gameplay and style and thought "smartphone game."
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I've never gotten a cheap or smartphone game vibe off Scarlet Grace. I mean, it's 3 years old and originally developed for the PS Vita, so there is that.

This isn't a comment on the quality of the game, but I googled this game after you mentioned it, and jesus, it looks scarily shitty on the visuals front. I'd be embarrassed to load this up in my own home (though, hey, that won't stop me if I'm sure the gameplay is stellar):

maxresdefault.jpg
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
4,930
I guess there's something off about my aesthetic assessment, but I find the game to be quite pretty in a lot of ways. I like that kind of "painted-on" 3D style that was present in Minstrel Song, the pop-up/board game look of the world map, and besides the round character portraits in the initiative line-up, have found all the UI elements to be nicely laid out and stylish.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,998
Location
Platypus Planet
From what I've heard from some Saga enthusiasts Scarlet Grace has one of the best if not the best combat systems in Saga. If that ends up being true then everything else is gravy. I listened to some of the soundtrack as well and it was really good stuff. I can see the world map exploration being off putting for some people, but that's just how the cookie crumbles with this series. I actually *like* Unlimited Saga except for its ultra shallow combat and bullshit reel systems, so having a more unorthodox way of exploring a world is OK for me.
 

eric__s

ass hater
Developer
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
2,301
From what I've heard from some Saga enthusiasts Scarlet Grace has one of the best if not the best combat systems in Saga.
That's almost hard to believe, but yeah, I've read the same thing. I feel like Minstrel Song nailed it, if this is better than Minstrel Song, I'll be floored.
 

Expon

Scholar
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
169
How well the party syngrizes as a whole can make or break combat in scarlet grace very much like tlr. There's no using multiple weapons on characters because of this (no axe and swords or magic with martial arts). Magic sometimes works by channling the element of the field (like what rs2 or rs3 had when you used element attacks) into your caster's spell. Like rs1:ms you have gods that can give blessings, but much more detailed (quest you've completed, current story progression and the current map geography).
With that said, units are meant to be shuffled around occasionally like in rs2 and some characters you don't get until late in the game and you can't actually buy anything, only upgrade what you got from battles and quest. (this game is structered like imperial saga after all) I can see alot of people being turned away and especially since anytime kawazu designs a handheld game, he always means you to play them in short burst. But those who're interested in it's deep combat mechanics and quest design that puts rs2 to sham. i feel will be very pleased.
 

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