SaGa Series Discussion

[Hobo Elf]

No refund after all. That means that I won't be able to let go and have to force myself to play this until I love it / learn it. Sigh. Well, hopefully it turns out for the best.

 

[Swigen]

How he FUCK is this VITA port not available on vita but only on ps4 in the U.S.?!?! Jesus fucking Christ, Sony!! Pardon me while I go 100% PC and Nintendo in 2020. Suck my BAAAAAAWWWLLLS, Sony!!!

 

[Hobo Elf]

How he FUCK is this VITA port not available on vita but only on ps4 in the U.S.?!?! Jesus fucking Christ, Sony!! Pardon me while I go 100% PC and Nintendo in 2020. Suck my BAAAAAAWWWLLLS, Sony!!!

It's available on the Vita in the EU at least. Don't know why it wouldn't be in the US as well. But I did hear that you can't buy it from the Vita store, you have to buy it for the Vita using your PC browser or something. Seemed weird.

Has anyone unlocked any useful Roles so far? I've just been using the same weapons with everyone and looking to diversify now to unlock Roles.

 

[Swigen]

How he FUCK is this VITA port not available on vita but only on ps4 in the U.S.?!?! Jesus fucking Christ, Sony!! Pardon me while I go 100% PC and Nintendo in 2020. Suck my BAAAAAAWWWLLLS, Sony!!!

It's available on the Vita in the EU at least. Don't know why it wouldn't be in the US as well. But I did hear that you can't buy it from the Vita store, you have to buy it for the Vita using your PC browser or something. Seemed weird.

Has anyone unlocked any useful Roles so far? I've just been using the same weapons with everyone and looking to diversify now to unlock Roles.

It’s not even available for Vita via browser in the USA. Part of me thinks “well shit, Vita must’ve sold so bad here they can’t be arsed to copy and paste links to new games in the US Vita store”, but another part of me thinks, “yeeeeaaah Sony is so fucking lazy and Jewey now, even their shit Chinese made boom boxes suck more balls than Bluetooth speakers you can buy at a gas station. Gawd, if old Sony could only see itself now it’d be so ashamed it’d commit harakiri”.

 

[Abu Antar]

It's up to the developer/publisher. Not Sony. In this case, Square Enix.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Hmm, still not feeling persuaded to get this. Any updated thoughts?

 

[Tigranes]

I've completed my first SaGa playthrough ever - well, not quite.

My RS3 team made it to the Abyss, but I suspect that it was a very unoptimised team because I remained unclear about some of the mechanics. Without clear visual feedback it's hard to tell what a lot of the protective magic does and under what conditions it fires (e.g. when does Water Column nullify attacks, does Parhelion do anything, etc), and having often run past mobs, I had a team that was mostly dependent on heavy-hitting abilities like Monsoon / Gale blade attacks (2k+ dmg) and healing despite what I think is a fairly low HP total (~600) and not super great equipment.

Got by the 4 abyss bosses just fine, but the final boss seemed to present a bit of a raw numbers barrier. I also made the mistake of bringing Leonid on a whim after recruiting him 2 minutes before endgame, and leaving behind Paul, so things were a little unbalanced. (Rest of team was Khalid, Undine, Charl, Nora) Relied a lot on Feathering Seal (?) to protect 'healers', and after numerous tries got to what I think was the "90% there" signal (when they say they can't hold the boss back any more), and then got wiped because for some reason the final boss sometimes makes two attacks per turn and sometimes makes like four?

I'll probably replay the game in the future and truly defeat the boss, but for now, I've bought RS2 instead of the new Ambitions. Happy to get any RS2 mechanics tips for first-timer, e.g. any key diff from RS3.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I'll probably replay the game in the future and truly defeat the boss, but for now, I've bought RS2 instead of the new Ambitions. Happy to get any RS2 mechanics tips for first-timer, e.g. any key diff from RS3.

Final Emperor has melee oriented stats, Final Empress magic and ranged, so pic the appropriate Emperor you want based on how you intend to build your Emperor for end game.

Magic is at its most important in this game out of all Saga games. The game doesn't tell you how to learn new spells however. You have to build a magic facility (should be the first building you make). After that just use lots of spells to increase your global level. After certain thresholds your trainers will teach you the next tier of spells. When two schools of magic hit 15 and then 25 in the global levels you will be able to research and use fusion magic, incredibly powerful spells. Researched fusion spells become available after generation shifts.

Every spell school is good, though end game Wind is kind of passable even with its fusion spells. But in the very early game the basic Wind nuke is godly due to how it scales. Even end game it has decent damage for its MP cost, but MP won't be an issue and you can just use big boy spells to wipe out everything.

You learn new formations by talking to the formation guy in your castle. Not every class that you recruit / absorb into your kingdom has a new formation, but most of them do. Even if you don't want to play a specific class as your emperor you can still choose that new class, learn the formation and then do suicide runs until you get the Emperor you want. There's no penalty to this.

In the same room is a skill trainer who will teach you all skills you've sparked, though newly sparked skills only become available after a generation shift.

Researching gear is important, so try to do that constantly. Suits are imo one of the best pieces of armor. To get new suits you have to research new Heavy Armor, Gauntlets and Greaves.

Armor is not complex, but the values are hidden and poorly explained by the UI. The basic value shown is only for Slash damage, but each armor has different values for Slash, Pierce, Blunt, Arrow, Status, and the Magical elements. I'd recommend using a guide for this in order to familiarize yourself with how armor works. There is some basic logic to different armor types being better for certain damage so it becomes easier once you understand that.

 

[Jinn]

Has anyone unlocked any useful Roles so far? I've just been using the same weapons with everyone and looking to diversify now to unlock Roles.

I've only unlocked two new roles with Leonard so far, both of which have been very useful. I feel like once your other characters reach level 10 with their primary weapon type, a new role will become available to them, but I'm not sure. Everyone in my party is around level 9 with their weapon skills. If I get further tonight, I'll update this post (or post a fresh one if there's anymore activity in the thread) to confirm or deny if my hypothesis about role acquisition is correct.

EDIT: I got a couple characters to level 10 with their weapon skills, but it didn't trigger any roles. Haven't been able to find any concrete information about it. It must work randomly like glimmers, but much less frequently.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Hmm, still not feeling persuaded to get this. Any updated thoughts?

It got better for me over time, but I still wouldn't say it's great. I honestly don't know if I'm playing it because I have nothing else to play, or if I'd still play it anyway. I did find a method of playing this game that made it more enjoyable for me to get over the initial hump. I play it in shorter bursts now and use handheld mode on my Switch. Not sure why but this helped ease me into it. My issue with the BP system became less of a problem when I realized that ranking up individual skills drops the BP cost by 1, and that some formations drop BP cost further for specific weapons. I think the most important things to understand is that power progress in SG is more horizontal than vertical. In previous Sagas sparking a new tech can easily double your damage and that could be what determines if you will suffer crushing defeat or overwhelming victory. Here you unlock techs that are mostly for utility and it's a more gradual process as you need lots of techs for everyone so you can react to the enemy in any possible situation. Now that I've gotten further into the systems this is my main complaint. The combat is alright, but you need to have a very defensive play style. The enemy is setting the pace of combat as you're constantly reacting to what they do while slowly sneaking in some damage here and there. This is why it sucks so much in the beginning. You lack techs to react to your situation so all you can do is eat shit until you spark everything for everyone. Also the tier 1 and tier 2 spells are pretty lacklustre. I've finally been sparking tier 3 techs for Taria and they are on a whole different level of power.

Has anyone unlocked any useful Roles so far? I've just been using the same weapons with everyone and looking to diversify now to unlock Roles.

I've only unlocked two new roles with Leonard so far, both of which have been very useful. I feel like once your other characters reach level 10 with their primary weapon type, a new role will become available to them, but I'm not sure. Everyone in my party is around level 9 with their weapon skills. If I get further tonight, I'll update this post (or post a fresh one if there's anymore activity in the thread) to confirm or deny if my hypothesis about role acquisition is correct.

EDIT: I got a couple characters to level 10 with their weapon skills, but it didn't trigger any roles. Haven't been able to find any concrete information about it. It must work randomly like glimmers, but much less frequently.

I unlocked a Role that increases Slashing damage, but to learn it you need to spark 3 different techs across 3 different weapons. Seems pretty grindy to go through all the weapon tech combos to find decent Roles.

 

[Jinn]

Since Hobo Elf and I seem to be the only two playing this, I just wanted to return after a couple more days of playing, and 15 hours total to say that my initial impressions have held true and have even been surpassed in a lot of ways. It's quickly becoming one of my favorite SaGa games in the series. I've tried picking it up for just an hour or two a couple times and have found myself looking at the clock - surprised - 4 or 5 hours later. Pretty much everything Hobo said about the combat system is true and I agree with, except that his main complaint would be one of my main compliments. I like that you have to play defensively in a lot of situations, plan ahead, and really utilize skills that disable and interrupt. It makes a lot of Normal to Hard battles play out a lot more like your standard boss fight in an earlier SaGa game. Each battle keeps me engaged, and can easily crush me into dust if I'm not paying enough attention. Very little to no trash combat in the game.

I think my biggest complaint with the system so far would be that the characters base stats don't grow and can only be augmented by roles and equipment. This becomes a minor complaint when I start thinking about it, because of the sheer abundance of characters in your retinue. The game is very much so about swapping characters between battle, picking the best choices for any particular upcoming battle, and planning ahead with formation accordingly. It occurs organically though, through your replenishment of character LP. There are ways on the map to replenish LP, such as hot springs and wild plants you might come across, but mainly you gain it back by having characters sit out of 2-3 encounters. The variety in strategy this encourages is welcome to me, and tends to keep the combat even more interesting for me, because this is where resource management ties into exploration. It gives you the feeling of amassing a caravan of adventurers and eccentrics.

And again, I must emphasize how impressed I am with world exploration, world building, and questing. Quests are long, sometimes stretching over several provinces. If you're not paying enough attention, it can become very possible to unintentionally walk away from a quest midway through it. A lot of it boils down to classic SaGa questing: talking to the right people, encountering the right events this can trigger, bringing someone a particular item, etc. But the way it's executed with the overworld-based exploration makes it some of the most intuitive and fun questing in the series. As for the writing, the localization has been stellar, the characters enjoyable, and the emphasis on the world's mythology impressively in-depth and a joy to take in.

I didn't want to write a big long sperg like this when I started, but I've just been so impressed by the game. It's surpassed my expectations by quite a lot. I was excited to try out a new SaGa game, but I didn't expect for it to endear itself to me as much as Scarlet Grace has. It makes me kind of sad to see how little it's been selling, particularly on Steam. I'd recommend for the curious codexian SaGa fan to try it for 2 hour return window on steam (though I don't think 2 hours is really enough to get a solid feeling for the game), or at least "demo" it and buy it if it hits the spot.

I unlocked a Role that increases Slashing damage, but to learn it you need to spark 3 different techs across 3 different weapons. Seems pretty grindy to go through all the weapon tech combos to find decent Roles.

I agree that it doesn't seem like the best way for them to have you acquire new roles. It makes me wonder if there are other combinations of things you can do to get them. I'd actually be really interested in seeing a list of all the roles and how they can be gained. I still haven't received any new roles, so maybe that is the only way? They don't seem totally vital to building a good character, so I guess it's not that big of a deal. But still, the fact that characters quickly get 2 usable role slots would seem to indicate it shouldn't be that difficult to gain new roles.

 

[Abu Antar]

I have the game and I hope to finally spend an hour or two with this.

 

[Abu Antar]

Instead of playing Scarlet Grace, I returned to my RS3 playthrough. Got the "Asian" characters in their quest chain and I also cleared the Crystal Ruins. It had some really nice stuff in there. I don't remember ever going in there before. That place looked very cool and had a great track playing.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Pretty much everything Hobo said about the combat system is true and I agree with, except that his main complaint would be one of my main compliments..

It's not a problem in by itself and to some extent it eliminates the problem that most games have where the combat becomes formulaic. Here every encounter feels different even if it's against the same enemies. I just wish it had more wiggle room for self-expression. In some ways Magic is kind of like this since it acts a bit like a joker / trump card, but I'd like it if physical attacks had this capacity as well.

I spent a good part of my time today trying to learn new roles for my characters. Taria has a good AoE fire spells that has a chance to stun enemies, but it's useless if she goes after the enemies do, so I wanted to learn a Role that increases mobility. Well, good fukken luck to me. It requires two skills and I didn't even spark one of them. Think I'll just forget unlocking Roles like this for now. Can't even carry them over to NG+ until you've beaten the game twice it's kind of pointless. Thought it'd be easier but nah.

Anyways, I'm on the 3rd chapter in Taria's scenario. Now this time I have no idea where to go and my only hint is a hairpin that I've had since the beginning of the game. Time to go eggsplore.

 

[Abu Antar]

I finally started. My first quiz gave me Leonard, my second quiz gave me Balmaint. That was the character that I was intending to use from the start. Got a lot lower LP but improved agility and strength. I went with it. 9LP instead of 12 isn't that bad... I hope. Normal difficulty seems to hit the sweet spot for me. I tried a couple of fights on the easier and harder difficulties, but they were either to easy or to hard... rocket science, mates.
Anyway, combat clicked with me from the first battle. I'm doing fine, interrupting enemies and getting in union attacks every so often. That doesn't mean that I haven't lost people in battles. Luckily, I have 8 characters, so swapping people out for "LP regeneration" is a viable strategy early on. I can't iterate enough how important interrupts are. I also use the mage a lot. One might not think highly of magic because of how casting works, but my mage has been very helpful. One of his spells only costs one BP after upgrading it, so he's basically just a bonus damage dealer every few rounds. And he hits all enemies. Another good character is the archer I have. When I see the question marks on enemies, I know I'm not supposed to attack with regular attacks, so that's when I let him fire off his incendiary arrow. I love it when you time it right and get union attacks, too. Overall, I have really enjoyed the combat.

The game flow is decent so far. Explore the world map and points of interest. Go to cities, talk to people and find events. I went south after the game gave me some freedom and I went to some pilgrimages. There's just one encounter in the area that I can't beat. I hope it doesn't disappear later on, but for now, there is no chance for me to beat it. Killed a boss and a mini-boss or two. Those fights were as I expected, very intense and fun. And of course the music is great. I like the look of the world map, gives me Unlimited SaGa vibes, but 3D models are ugly and don't get me started on combat screens. Luckily, this isn't a big priority for me, even if it can't compare to how Unlimited SaGa looks.

Overall, my first 4-5 hours have been fun. I hope that I won't get tired of it, but I did not feel like this would be an issue while I played. In short, impressions are good, can't wait to play more.

 

[Hobo Elf]

My main tank has 4 LP so it's not going to be an issue.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Forgive the phone image, but

Spoiler

 

[Hyperion]

I play it in shorter bursts now and use handheld mode on my Switch. Not sure why but this helped ease me into it.

Because fonts are way too small on a television. I can't tell the difference between 2's and 3's if not in handheld mode.

Started as Balmant, up to (I think?) his 3rd chapter right now. Heading to Taria's starting zone. The beginning was kind of rough, not knowing much about mechanics, and not having many available resources to read about how to go into things. Even for a SaGa game this shit is unfriendly as can be at the start. But now that I've gotten the hang of mechanics, have branched some characters out into multiple weapons, gotten some new roles and the like, I can't put the game down. I looked up yesterday and noticed I had been playing for over 3 hours straight....which I never do anymore.

Things to know: Mobility is God. This can also appear in some roles as 'initiative,' since going before enemies is an absolute Godsend. Some abilities can permanently shift your Turn Initiative up or down the line, so be careful when using that big attack.

Acuity is an absolute MUST for characters with the capability to block: Dual Wielders*, Shield Bearers, and Spear users. I'm not sure if Greatswords are included but I have to imagine Deflect gets the bonus too. It's very important to note that Blocking is a total lifesaver, and can and will change the course of a fight with a single well-timed one. Do note that ONLY SHIELDS can fully nullify an attack's damage. Weapon blocks reduce incoming damage by 60%.

* - As far as I can tell, Dual Wielding is mostly garbage compared to Sword and Shield. Their only advantage seems to be one or two skills that get bonus damage to Devils and Undead, both of which are difficult enemy types. Seems like they get little to no damage bonus, and if you dual wield Swords you can block and attack (but only for 60% damage reduction, compared to 100% for a shield).

Magic seems poor at the beginning, and this is sort of true when things die quickly, but pay attention to incantation times - the 1 or 2 turn ones can quickly shift the tides of battle in a hurry. Spell Sparking works differently from most others, so you need to pay attention to the equipped staff. There are 2 types: Standard and Element-Specific. Standard follows a simple progression path, whenever you absorb Flux at the end of a battle, you will have a chance of Sparking the next Tier of a spell of that element provided your skill is high enough.

Metal T1 -> Sparks Metal T2
Fire T1 -> Sparks Fire T2

Element-Specific Staves will only spark spells of that element, however. For example a fire staff will spark an equal tiered spell off any element spell.

Metal T1 -> Sparks Fire T1
Nature T1 -> Sparks Fire T1
Water T2 -> Sparks Fire T2

Weapons have a similar set of conditions. Greatswords that I've seen, for example, have both 'Standard' and 'Power' variants. Not only do they have different stat bonuses and maluses, but they carry a different set of Sparkable Techs for you to learn, so be careful if you're trying to learn something. You may need a different weapon type. Optical Slash, a GS counter used in some pretty good roles, can only be gotten on the Standard GS type.

ALWAYS HAVE A RANGED ATTACKER IN YOUR PARTY. The importance of this cannot be overstated. Enemy conditionals are DEVASTATING, especially the later in the game you go. For the most part this means a Bow user, but there are certain enemies who will Interrupt a 'piercing' attack, which is bullshit and unfair, but you can prepare for it - plenty of weapons get Ranged attacks. I've seen Sonic Blade for Longsword, Gravedigger for GS (can't hit Fliers BEWARE!), and Piercing Lightning for Shortswords. They can be a little heavy on the BP cost of things, but try to use them whenever you have the opportunity - a rank up will reduce their BP cost by 1 (never costs 0). 1 less BP can make a huge difference in your strategy for the turn, especially if you haven't landed a United Attack.

Axes, Bows, and Throws can and WILL miss, and usually at the most inopportune time. Everything else is a guaranteed Hit, disregarding Block mechanics.

Be wary of 3+ enemies in a row on that bottom list. If you kill anything but the two enemies on either end, they'll slam together and land a Unison Attack of their own and really fuck your day up. Again, be sure to use skills of differing speeds tp try and break them up if the target you need dead is one of the middle men. Also of note are attacks with built-in delay (Brusque Slice, Thunder Kick, Hyper Hammer etc) that can break up the line. Also keep in mind if it lands the killing blow, the delay happens first, then the enemy death, so don't be afraid to use it on a low health target in the middle either.

Apparently the game's scaling mechanics have been figured out by the Japs. I'm not sure of the accuracy, but the 1st fight you have in a new location on the world map raises your 'player level' 5x more than any subsequent battles you have in that particular spot. If you're finding yourself on trouble, do NOT wander the zones, but stay in your zone and fight in the same areas until you've got the HP, skills, and materials you need. Some people have also said that upgrading a single character's weapon too far ahead of everyone else will cause problems too, but I'm not sure.

I unlocked a bunch of roles but I'm not in front of the game so I can't post what the requirements are. Some dude posted a (mostly complete list?) on the wiki, but that's less fun than sharing amongst ourselves. Especially since this game has little to no information about it anywhere.

 

[eric__s]

Some Scarlet Grace pictures. Minor character spoilers!

Spoiler

I identify strongly with this man.

The crew. I made Queen an archer and she's been very good, but I found a character that could be even better, but he doesn't have his techs ranked up. It seems like if you want to really use a character, you have to get them towards the beginning of the game, or else they'll have shitty tech ranks.

All those spells. I think I've been spoiled by Taria, I really doubt there are any other casters that are better.

Martial arts, mother h*bbard.

It's hard to say which weapon types I think are the best, I haven't used them all yet, but martial arts and spear are both very versatile, and martial arts can be made super cheap. I also like short swords a lot, which have a wide array of effects it can apply to enemies, but are also pretty situational. Bow and staff seem mandatory! I'm trying to work out of it's possible to have multiple casters and still be effective. I've got formations for it, but they'd need to focus on different spell schools.

 

[eric__s]

Holy shit... I just stumbled onto the final boss; I didn't even realize I was about to fight it, I haven't even played that much. This is the realest final boss I've ever seen in a video game. It feels like the goddamn RPG SATs - do you understand how to play this game? Are you good at this game? Are you REALLY good at this game? This is insane, in a really good way. I have never played a game that simultaneously demands so much from the player but gives you all the tools you need to do it - not even other SaGa games. The entire game up until this point feels like it was preparation for this moment.

Spoilers now...

Spoiler

I'm on form 4 right now. I think this is the last one. I just fought Marigan, who, weirdly enough, I've fought before. It was an exact copy of a boss I fought a while ago. I'm staring at the screen and afraid to take action because I know I am going to get wrecked.

Edit:

Spoiler

I did it!

The third battle (the battle you fight right after Savnok) is definitely the hardest.

Starting over with a new character now. This is by far the best SaGa game.

 

[Hyperion]

...Huh, everyone over here is beating the game while I feel like I've barely scratched the surface with Balmant. Must have spent too long fucking around, experimenting with weapons, and upgrading characters.

List of Roles I've gotten thus far:

Spoiler

• Finisher: Phys Dmg Up (L) / Chance to be Targeted Up (L) - Hyper Hammer + Matador
• Rival: Initial Position Up (L) / Chance to be Targeted Up (M) - Thunder Kick + Bonecrusher
• Sweeper: Chance to be blocked/evaded down (M) / Attack damage down (S) - Maim + Slide
• Iron Wall: All resistances up (M) - Jolt Counter + Optical Slash
• Meat Shield: Physical resistances up (L) - Jolt Counter + Matador
• Warder: Elemental resistances up (M) / Elemental damage up (S) - Windmill + Deflect
• Shield Master: Shield block rate up (L) Rampart + Block + Matador
• The Untoppleable: HP up (L) - Smash (Axe) + Optical Slash
• Martial Artist: Strength up (M) / Mobility up (M) - Thunder Kick + Raksha + Tumble
• The Able: Dexterity Up (L) - Tumble + Quick Nock
• The Driven: Acuity Up (L) - Split Cranium + Rapid Volley
• The Chosen: Increases frequency of Bartlett's Stratagem - Vertical Smash + Slide + Mesmerize

Matador is used way too often

Also, I completed some sidequest in Taria's starting zone regarding a Witch. Looks like your dialogue choices will net a different character. I got another Mage out of it, and was figuring I kinda sorta needed one, but she's useless. My primary formation right now reduces BP costs on incantations by 2 in the 5th spot, but for some reason she doesn't benefit from it....

 

[eric__s]

...Huh, everyone over here is beating the game while I feel like I've barely scratched the surface with Balmant. Must have spent too long fucking around, experimenting with weapons, and upgrading characters.

Also, I completed some sidequest in Taria's starting zone regarding a Witch. Looks like your dialogue choices will net a different character. I got another Mage out of it, and was figuring I kinda sorta needed one, but she's useless. My primary formation right now reduces BP costs on incantations by 2 in the 5th spot, but for some reason she doesn't benefit from it....

I didn't do many side quests and mostly stuck to the storyline. For instance, I have no gatdam idea what quest in Taria's starting area you're talking about, I must have missed it completely. Overall it probably took about 20 hours on normal difficulty. Next time around, I'm going to focus much more on side quests.

 

[Jinn]

...Huh, everyone over here is beating the game while I feel like I've barely scratched the surface with Balmant. Must have spent too long fucking around, experimenting with weapons, and upgrading characters.

I'm 20 hours in with Leonard and also feel like I have a long way to go. It's nice that you can reach the end/final boss earlier on, but even if I came across the option now, I'd put it off so I could continue to explore the word and build my characters. It's feeling like I'm maybe about halfway through Leonard's campaign. I've been doing a lot of side quests along the main quest provincial path, and a number of them were pretty lengthy. I've gotten a number of new roles myself (I think about 6-7 total across all characters). Couldn't quite figure out what triggered them though.

 

[Hyperion]

I didn't do many side quests and mostly stuck to the storyline. For instance, I have no gatdam idea what quest in Taria's starting area you're talking about, I must have missed it completely. Overall it probably took about 20 hours on normal difficulty. Next time around, I'm going to focus much more on side quests.

Spoiler

It wasn't available until I advanced the provincial storyline a little bit, but in the Southeast Corner a giant Raven appeared, which led to an easy fight against 3 Blackwings. I found some broad passed out on the ground, and she took me to Raven Manor to sleep the night. Some weird shit happened, and then 2 urns appeared on the map, which I then broke, which allowed the Witch to leave the area. Go back to the Manor and she pretty blatantly lies to your face twice. If you choose you believe her both times, she gets thrilled and joined. After that I saw some other girl that's a Witch Hunter appear and leave. I assume she's the character you get if you throw down with Kreisa.

All the while there was some lonely Fisherman calling me a fucking retard for falling for the Witch's schemes even though he told me not to.

Couldn't quite figure out what triggered them though.

Glimmering a combination of specific skills will sometimes net you a new role. Some people have said that some of the Roles also require the mentioned skill to require a specific Rank, but I haven't come across that yet. Seems Rank II skills come available between 15 and 17 of a weapon skill. Think it was 17 for Arthur's Water Spells.

 

[Hyperion]

Hmm, still not feeling persuaded to get this. Any updated thoughts?

I was frustrated by the combat system at first because it throws you into the deep end without really teaching you how to swim, or giving you a boat / buoyance devices to stay afloat while you learn to doggy paddle. So you're gonna fall under a few times and feel helpless because, well....until you spark a few techs, and can deal with everything thrown at you, you are helpless.

That being said, I'm now flat out addicted to the game, want it to never end, and enjoy the combat more and more every time I turn it on. 2019 GOTY imo. Better than Romancing SaGa 3.

Sparking techs is more complicated than ever - they took the Power / Speed concept from The Last Remnant and expanded it into 3-4 categories per weapon type, all with their own set of skills you can spark (once you spark they carry across weapon sub-types, not to worry), and each sub-type sparks new skills differently. In a sense it's more intuitive since you're encouraged to experiment and use the strong skills you learn instead of spending 90% of the game spamming your basic attack (while using the basic Free For All role in SF2's case) to learn a new skill you'll use for bosses and other big baddies while trash gets the A spam. But it can be frustrating when you're like me, haplessly using Rapid Volley for 10 hours trying to learn Rain of Arrows only to realize you need to use Incendiary Arrow instead on the 'special' bow type.