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sawyer wants rpg to evolve

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RPGs can become much more “radical” but hardcore players are “resistant to change”, says Obsidian

Josh Sawyer, design director at Pillars of Eternity and Fallout: New Vegas developer Obsidian, would like to see the RPG genre evolve radically beyond its current state.

Stats and combat systems shouldn’t define the role-playing game, said Sawyer, although he admitted he has been complicit in creating games that stick to an accepted template.

“The hardcore RPG audience is very traditional,” said Sawyer at Reboot Develop this week, discussing the evolution of genres.

“Fans tend to skew towards the more hardcore cases and they tend to be fairly resistant to change. I don’t want to paint too broad of a stroke there but RPGs can be a lot more than we have done with them so far. There’s much more than we can do and its much more radical.

“I’m also contributing to the problem,” he added. “Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 are very traditional role playing games. But the genre can go in a number of different directions it’s just a matter of framing the project size and things that meet up in the same place.”

pillars_of_eternity_2_deadfire_header-1152x570.jpg


For Sawyer, role-playing games are defined by the player’s ability to alter the storyline of the game through his or her actions, rather than the amount of stat tweaking or hit points a player delivers in combat.

“So many games use RPG elements, stat progression and characteristics that are defined by those in RPGs. I start to question about whether that is the heart and soul of what a role-playing game is about,” he said.

“The way that I work on role-playing games, they tend to be more about playing a character that has a range of personalities and a way of going through a story that changes that story in a very significant way. The amount to which things like statistics or combat systems interact with that, really can be much more fluid.

He pointed to Bethesda’s success with Fallout and The Elder Scrolls games as examples of a developer taking role-playing games in a different direction.

“The traditionalists probably get angry about this stuff, but Bethesda’s RPGs are very different from isometric RPGs.

“They’re much more action orientated, much more focused on the immersive experience. That shows there’s more room for RPGs to grow than just to be what they were 20 years ago. It’s really a matter of finding an audience that matches up with that,” he added.

Source
 
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Sentinel

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The way that I work on role-playing games, they tend to be more about playing a character that has a range of personalities and a way of going through a story that changes that story in a very significant way.
What happened to this in Pillars?
 

Cross

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He says RPGs shouldn't just be about combat, but when given the opportunity to design the mechanics for a new RPG franchise (PoE), he went out of his way to phase out non-combat mechanics like thief skills, utility magic, being able to bash open a door with sufficient strength, etc.

:philosoraptor:
 

2house2fly

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He says RPGs shouldn't just be about combat, but when given the opportunity to design the mechanics for a new RPG franchise (PoE), he went out of his way to phase out non-combat mechanics like thief skills, utility magic, being able to bash open a door with sufficient strength, etc.

:philosoraptor:
Maybe that's what taught him RPGs shouldn't just be about combat
 

Junmarko

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https://www.pcgamer.com/pillars-of-..._source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire director urges RPG developers to be more 'radical', says some fans 'resistant to change'

By Samuel Horti 22/04/2018

Interactions between combat systems, a player's attributes, and storytelling should be more "fluid", Josh Sawyer says

PzjoudfDBtBjVUqbFsz6ET-650-80.jpg



Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire is just over two weeks away, and I can't wait. The first game was an homage to classic RPGs like Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment, and that was part of why players loved it so much. But the man in charge of directing it, Obsidian's Josh Sawyer, says that the genre needs to be more "radical", and that both Pillars 1 and 2 are "contributing to the problem" of a lack of innovation.

“Fans tend to skew towards the more hardcore cases and they tend to be fairly resistant to change," he said at Reboot Development 2018 this week. "I don’t want to paint too broad of a stroke there but RPGs can be a lot more than we have done with them so far. There’s much more than we can do and it's much more radical.

“The genre can go in a number of different directions...I’m also contributing to the problem. Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 are very traditional role playing games."

He said that interactions between combat systems, a character's attributes, and storytelling should be more "fluid", and pointed to Bethesda's success with games like Skyrim as examples of how the genre can change.

“The traditionalists probably get angry about this stuff, but Bethesda’s RPGs are very different from isometric RPGs. They’re much more action orientated, much more focused on the immersive experience. That shows there’s more room for RPGs to grow than just to be what they were 20 years ago. It’s really a matter of finding an audience that matches up with that."

Thanks, VG247.

:nocountryforshitposters:
 

Sentinel

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and pointed to Bethesda's success with games like Skyrim as examples of how the genre can change.
I'd really like to know what he meant by this. Because the "changes" brought by Skyrim was eliminating every RPG element in there aside from character level.
 

Infinitron

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PC Gamer doing some creative interpretation there for the clicks. They're making it sound like he was actively hostile towards oldschool games which I'm quite sure wasn't the case.
 

Junmarko

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PC Gamer doing some creative interpretation there for the clicks. They're making it sound like he was actively hostile towards hardcore games which I'm quite sure wasn't the case.

Yeah. Sounds like he's ready for another "NV"(FPP), hence the "Bethesda" name-drop.


That was for UI design IIRC. All other signs indicated a VtmB approach.
 

Parabalus

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Josh Fucking Sawyer said:
“The traditionalists probably get angry about this stuff, but Bethesda’s RPGs are very different from isometric RPGs.

They are also shit.

Shit traditional RPGs yes, but shit games?

Skyrim is closer to GTA than BG, it's just made for a completely different audience. The RPG label was "usurped", hence stuff now being called explicitly old-school or traditional, it just isn't comparable any more.




He says RPGs shouldn't just be about combat, but when given the opportunity to design the mechanics for a new RPG franchise (PoE), he went out of his way to phase out non-combat mechanics like thief skills, utility magic, being able to bash open a door with sufficient strength, etc.

:philosoraptor:

You can't claim with a straight face that PoE has less out of combat interactivity/content than IE games.
 

Sannom

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He says RPGs shouldn't just be about combat, but when given the opportunity to design the mechanics for a new RPG franchise (PoE), he went out of his way to phase out non-combat mechanics like thief skills, utility magic, being able to bash open a door with sufficient strength, etc.

:philosoraptor:
He wasn't exactly given the opportunity though, that comes along with a class-based system, and he's made it clear that's not his system of choice.
 

vonAchdorf

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He better gets his shit together after the pre-launch craziness ends and starts working on his historical game after taking some vacations. I don't mind something radical if it has a consistent and not overly retarded design philosophy behind it - a pet project is something to try things out. A luxury he doesn't really have with the customers' expectations for the nth iteration of the IE model.
 
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FreeKaner

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I agree with the grand take on this, that RPGs can be different and radical, more focused on the aspect of a fluid and interactive story. Alpha Protocol and New Vegas attempt a bit at this, VTMB too at a degree. I think it could be interesting to try, it would be pretty much opposed to new "RPGs"; Which is some levels, bunch of items and mobs, a lot of hiking and voila.

Make a robust character progression system with a lot of non-combat elements, add in some intrigue, factions, politics, puzzles, interesting dialogue and story, some killing here and there. Set in, I don't know, some criminal underworld or low level politics in space whatever it is. The potential is high.
 

santino27

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I agree with the grand take on this, that RPGs can be different and radical, more focused on the aspect of a fluid and interactive story. Alpha Protocol and New Vegas attempt a bit at this, VTMB too at a degree. I think it could be interesting to try, it would be pretty much opposed to new "RPGs"; Which is some levels, bunch of items and mobs, a lot of hiking and voila.

Make a robust character progression system with a lot of non-combat elements, add in some intrigue, factions, politics, puzzles, interesting dialogue and story, some killing here and there. Set in, I don't know, some criminal underworld or low level politics in space whatever it is. The potential is high.
Sure. The disconnect occurs when he cites Bethesda's games, imo. Also, I don't feel any of those 'action-based RPGs' did combat very well, so you're left with either still trying to solve that challenge or eschewing combat entirely.

I think Disco Elysium (which is still a shittier name than No Truce with the Furies) potentially ticks a lot of the boxes you're talking about, but instead Sawyer is referencing games like Skyrim. Feels like all of Obsidian is hunting for ways to rationalize their love for skyrim when the truth is they just see how much money it made and wish it had been them.
 

Sannom

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I believe the main thing that some games need to go beyond is the strict separation between combat and dialogues/story. Bioware and the PoE games are especially guilty of this, with the two systems barely interacting at all. Skyrim and FNV and Deus Ex, with the freedom of movement inherent to single character open 3D worlds, feel like they should be the best at this.
 

jungl

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immersion such a buzzword. Bethesda games aren't really immersive at all. When I played fallout 3 I felt like my dudes running animation was equivalent to rollerskating and 360 scoping super mutants at level 2 with a hunting rifle felt so wrong. Newcomers to fallout probably were immersed with the zombie ghouls. Fallout 4 was a complete failure when it came to immersion as the minecraft elements of the game practically destroyed it.

A immersive game for me would be something like morrowind with the reactivity of fallout 2. I prefer it be the dice roll combat of morrowind but vastly more entertaining somehow.
 

frajaq

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W T F

Sure, there’s room to do different shit, but your company nostalgia-baited those derisive “traditionalists” to stay in business.

I'm sorry have you seen the comments and posts by Critical Role fans trying out the first PoE? And thirsty Bioware fans coming in after they heard so much about romance in-game?

nu-Obsidian Entertainment doesn't need you anymore
 

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