Scars of War - new indie RPG

[Jora]

Cardtrick, here's the link to the blog:

http://www.garagegames.com/blogs/49499/13254

The amount of work that needs to be done seems immense. NN should really get someone to help him!

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

VD an NN should team up

 

[Amasius]

Sound promising, very promising indeed. The setting reminds me of Central Europe after the Thirty Years' War with some magic.

And I hope to learn more about the evil of moral relativism in your game.

 

[denizsi]

Sounds and looks interesting indeed. Here's hoping it will evolve into a solid offering. Give us some details, is combat turn based, phase based or real-time for instance? Direct controls or cursor driven?

 

[stargelman]

Sounds and looks interesting indeed. Here's hoping it will evolve into a solid offering. Give us some details, is combat turn based, phase based or real-time for instance? Direct controls or cursor driven?

Given that it's first person that seems kind of obvious...

 

[JarlFrank]

Sounds and looks interesting indeed. Here's hoping it will evolve into a solid offering. Give us some details, is combat turn based, phase based or real-time for instance? Direct controls or cursor driven?

Given that it's first person that seems kind of obvious...

Is it? Look at Might and Magic or Wizardry to see that also FP games can be Turnbased. Wiz 8 is a good example for a relatively modern FP RPG with nice TB combat.

 

[stargelman]

Sounds and looks interesting indeed. Here's hoping it will evolve into a solid offering. Give us some details, is combat turn based, phase based or real-time for instance? Direct controls or cursor driven?

Given that it's first person that seems kind of obvious...

Is it? Look at Might and Magic or Wizardry to see that also FP games can be Turnbased. Wiz 8 is a good example for a relatively modern FP RPG with nice TB combat.

Ok, but those are pretty rare. I'd think that given the audience, if he planned anything like turn based combat in a first person game, he'd already have mentioned it...

 

[cardtrick]

Cardtrick, here's the link to the blog:

http://www.garagegames.com/blogs/49499/13254

The amount of work that needs to be done seems immense. NN should really get someone to help him!

Thanks, Jora!

And thanks Naked Ninja for writing it. Seriously, anyone interested in making an RPG in Torque should read this blog. Some really enlightening stuff in there for me. I particularly like the posts that get into the nitty-gritty of how you're accomplishing things, like the ones on integrating AFX into your game.

 

[Naked Ninja]

What I'm saying is that evil characters are people too and they should have the same level of complexity as good guys. They should have moral dilemmas and those moral dilemmas should be as hard for them as they are for goodies. They should have honor or at least a reputation for keeping their word they should have good qualities mixed in with the bad ones. Once you get that apply the same principle to the good guys and you get realistic characters that easily create moral dilemas.

Totally agree. I have put a lot of effort into making character motivations believable and realistic. No one is trying to destroy the world. People are motivated by the same things as in reality, greed, revenge, loyalty to a cause, personal advancement, etc. I want to create characters the player can understand and identify with, even if they don't agree with their actions.

Coolio. About the skills, can non-dialogue skills play part in dialogue? (Example; in Fallout 2 if you had enough science skill you could talk to Myron about the details of Jet making, find a cure, etc.)

Most definately.Torque comes with a very powerful scripting language and almost all of the mechanics are accessable via that script. It is easy to check non combat skills, player gender, an attribute such as strength, even whether they are carrying an item or have completed a quest. The dialgoue system is a dialogue tree, and every branch of that tree can check whether any number of conditions are met before displaying. So for example you can set it to only show a specific line of dialogue if the player is male and has a strength greater than 20. Or if he has a high Divination magic skill.

Also, do you plan on using skill synergies within the categories, AoD style? Assuming combat skills are mostly weapon based, it seems like a diplomatic character would be at a disadvantage without them, you have to master 3 or 4 skills, while a combat guy only really has to master one (unless skill points are more "potent" for dialogue skills or something.)

No skill synergies. There are actually more combat skills than there are social skills, and the social skills don't cost as much. I've purposefully set it up so that each of the skill categories (Combat, Magic, Trickery, Social and General) are NOT equal in cost. Magic for example has the most skills, and they are the most expensive. To be a good overall mage you need to sink every skill point you get into magic skills. Which reflects the archetype of a mage, if you want to bend reality you need to devote yourself to it fully. But if you wanted to make a character similar to a D&D rogue, you would pick skills mainly from trickery and social, with a few combat skills thrown in.

The final skill cost balance isn't set in stone yet, but for example the melee skill costs 5 skill points and the bluff skill 2. I'll post up a list of the skills sometime soon in the future for discussion.

@ Denizsi : I should have mentioned, the combat is real time, direct FPS style control, ala morrowind or oblivion. I know that might dissapoint a lot of people here, but it's my preference. I -might-, and this is a big might, implement a 3rd person comera. It's harder to make a decent 3rd person offering than you might think. They tend to get stuck in walls or act stupidly.

@ cardtrick : Thank you And yes, if people are interested in more details about the technical side or design process, and you can handle ugly test art, feel free to check out my GG blogs, they go back the 2 years I meantioned. Please note, you will see cartooney graphics, lots of magic effects, test dialogues, orcs/elves and very little discussion of storyline or gameplay design.It isn't a reflection of the final game, merely discussions of the functional programming components.

The dialogue editor : http://www.garagegames.com/blogs/49499/11161

Quest system and Events : http://www.garagegames.com/blogs/49499/11424

Quest, Journal and Scrpt editors : http://www.garagegames.com/blogs/49499/12199

Special Effects and drag 'n drop inventory : http://www.garagegames.com/blogs/49499/13083[/quote]

 

[denizsi]

@ Denizsi : I should have mentioned, the combat is real time, direct FPS style control, ala morrowind or oblivion. I know that might dissapoint a lot of people here, but it's my preference. I -might-, and this is a big might, implement a 3rd person comera.

As long as the combat moves aren't based on movement direction, ie. twitches or some other proven-to-fail method, it should be ok. The only advantage I can think of of 3rd person camera is that it greatly helps those with motion sickness. I rarely get motion sickness playing first person games and only so when I'm overtired, but at such times, I've noticed how big of a difference it must have been making for people who regularly get motion sickness.

It's harder to make a decent 3rd person offering than you might think. They tend to get stuck in walls or act stupidly.

I've designed a primitive yet "non-sticking" 3rd person camera behaviour in the past on a some game engine and it wasn't that hard really, but the engine came readily with many mathematical functions I'd need for it and it was in Visual Basic; I have no idea if that makes it harder or easier to do than in other languages, programming or scripting.

 

[Shoelip]

Looks very interesting. I have some questions though. Is there unarmed combat and is there a point to it(for instance knocking someone out instead of killing them)? What specific kinds of magic will there be? Anything like charm spells? Healing magic? Necromancy? Ressurection?

Oh, and don't knock Tolkien because of generic fantasy. Generic fantasy has little in common with Tolkien. Really, no more so than say Counterstrike has to do with real counter-terrorism.

 

[Joe Blow]

Indie RPGs suck. I hate Spiderweb Software because they have bad graphics and no romances(I can't get laid lulz). All Indie RPGs are rip offs of games made in the 80's, but mainstream games like Morrowind(my favorite) are 100% original and are not based on 80's games like indies are. My claims are 100% true I don't need to back anything up because you are all the real dumbfucks and just pick on me.

 

[The Runnin' Dude]

(I can't get laid lulz)

Yeah, me neither. That's why I look at porn all day long. I would like to fuck GoldLeader's LARP chick, but since I have no balls I'll hide behind my Playboy magazine.

 

[Ladonna]

One of the locals. I can't let you guys know who it is because that would be unprofessional and maybe even unethical. I'm sure he'll introduce himself later on.

I got it as soon as you wrote that VD.

Well done NN. Maybe you will prove to be more than just a bag of righteous wind yet. :wink:

 

[xedoc gpr]

Jeez, that looks great. I don't know if I should get my hopes up since there's only one person working on it (and my experience with that kind of "developer team" haven't been too good) but if it does get finished, then it sounds like a really good game. Good work.

 

[Spectacle]

Sounds very nice so far! Good luck with finishing it Naked Ninja, and let's hope Pirates don't steal it away from you :D

 

[Naked Ninja]

As long as the combat moves aren't based on movement direction, ie. twitches or some other proven-to-fail method, it should be ok. The only advantage I can think of of 3rd person camera is that it greatly helps those with motion sickness. I rarely get motion sickness playing first person games and only so when I'm overtired, but at such times, I've noticed how big of a difference it must have been making for people who regularly get motion sickness.

Combat moves are mapped to quickbar keys not movement. Hmmm, that's a good point. I'll look into it. It isn't just the camera getting stuck that's the issue. I have to make sure things like spells aim properly in both modes, etc. I'm not saying it's that difficult, but it isn't as simple as setting a flag in the engine.

I don't know if I should get my hopes up since there's only one person working on it (and my experience with that kind of "developer team" haven't been too good) but if it does get finished, then it sounds like a really good game.

You are perfectly justified in feeling that way. I have little faith in the majority of indie projects. Not becasue they are indie, but because no one is paying them or forcing them to finish. It's easy to start working on a game because in the beginning it is really fun and you're enthusiastic, but after a while it becomes a long gruelling slog with little pay or recognition. That's where most indies fail; when it gets hard they get tired or bored and give up. But after 2 years I've pushed past that. Partly just because I'm a stubborn bastard.

Is there unarmed combat and is there a point to it(for instance knocking someone out instead of killing them)? What specific kinds of magic will there be? Anything like charm spells? Healing magic? Necromancy? Ressurection?

Unarmed combat is currently in. I'll talk more about the differences between weapon types later, but the simplest difference is in the abilities that are opened up. Abilities are things like spells and special manoevers. They are tied to your skills. So there are a variety of abilities that you can learn as a fighter if you meet the required skill rank. Aimed shots for bows, power attacks, special fighting moves. Unarmed combat will open up different abilties to say a melee weapon fighter.

Schools of magic, at the moment the list is as follows :

- Evocation
- Transmuation
- Divination
- Mentalism
- Conjuration
- Thaumaturgy (magic that manipulates life force or spiritual energies, includes necromancy and healing)

There is also Spellcraft, Channelling, Alchemy and Enchantment in the Magic category of skills. I'll describe them in detail in another thread.

 

[denizsi]

You know, if you have made a design document, it might be nice to show it, and if not, you should make one. It helps putting your thoughts and ideas in an order and helps you to remember.

 

[Naked Ninja]

I do have design documents, quite a few actually, on the various aspects.

I will post more in-depth details about the various aspects of the games design in specific threads for discussion sometime in the near future. For example, a thread about the skills system, about how weapons or crafting work, etc. But for now this is more of a "general info/overview" thread. I don't want to head off into too much nitty gritty detail here.

Rest assured that those details do exist though.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Sounds and looks good so far. Props for keeping at it for 2 years.

Besides combat, how far along are you with the social interaction and story part of the game? In other words, have you implemented working quests and interactions between different factions in the world?

 

[Section8]

I thought this might happen sooner or later. I've peeked at your dev blog a few times since you've joined, and I have to say I like the way you're going. My impression is that given enough time, we'll see an end result. That pleases me. Can't wait to see more.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Thanks Section


@ Ivy Mike : To speak plainly, my major drive now is adding in the content I've designed into the world, and implementing the art to go with it. I've been working for 2 years primarily on the code and design. Code wise it's very close to complete and I have lots of design documents, stoyline details, factions, quests and dialogue planned out. Now I am focusing on getting that into the game, balancing and tweaking. It won't happen overnight, but I am making good progress.

So to answer your question, almost all the functionality I've talked about is there and working, but the actual storyline quests and dialogues which make up what the player will interact with, that is what I'm putting in at the moment. A good portion of it comes down to data capture, entering it all into the database. This is where those editors I've created are going to prove their worth.


As I go along I will be keeping you informed with new updates. It is exciting for me, because now that I can focus on content I can finally see the ideas I have coming to life in the game. And I thought you would all enjoy seeing that process. Believe me, I'm as eager to show off things like dialogue and quests as you are to see them. They will be coming asap, don't worry.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Just thought I would post a message of support. This sounds like something I would definitely play.

 

[Helton]

About the evil. I don't see evil as just asking for more money. I see it as being willing to treat others badly to achieve your ends. For example, betraying a promise to achieve a personal goal. The evil path will generally be easier than the good path, as well as probably more financially rewarding.

You, as the developer, have already judged my character. I respect the importance of having a trustworthy "word", but ultimately if that gets in the way, it's the first thing to go. Whatever goal I'm after is more important than some promise I made when the circumstances were different.

An alternate character may feel completely opposite, and that's fine. Neither is evil. But you, in your mind, have already defined one as evil. I doubt you'll manage to keep that bias out of quest design. This is not good.

I'd suggest trying to stamp any preconceptions you have out before writing quests or characters. Don't design a quest with an "evil path" in mind. An NPC can consider an act evil, and he can express that, but the game -- the designer -- shouldn't offer any moral judgement.

 

[Naked Ninja]

While I respect your opinion, remember that in the game I am writing characters, not myself. I wouldn't murder someone to achieve my ends, but that doesn't mean I can't write characters that would. The factions and players in the game don't see themselves as "evil", and there isn't a big bar showing where you stand on an absolute scale.

If you break a promise to achieve a goal, you aren't going to be awarded dark side points. Some factions/characters will dislike your actions, some will agree.

And most importantly, I'm going out of my way to make it so there isn't a clear "right" choice in every situation. I consider murdering someone immoral, but if it saved many lives? What about torturing them? Is it justified? I'm going to leave that up to the player, and I've writen characters that see it from both sides. How good a job I do of that, well, you'll have to decide when you play.