Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game) - coming March 22nd

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by Matador, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. DemonKing Arcane

    DemonKing
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2,908
    I liked having bros to call on when my old man reflexes/lack of time rules me out of getting past certain bosses - would be a bit sad if I can't get past certain key bosses in the game and have to abandon it. Still willing to give it a go though because...FROM.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. Suicidal Arcane

    Suicidal
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,538
    Location:
    Worstest cuntry EU
    I never understood why some people call bosses like Friede "unfair". What's unfair about it? The fight follows the rules of the game, you don't need to resort to exploits and very specific strats to beat it, all you need is to learn all 3 forms and what they do and then not make too many mistakes while fighting. It's not an easy boss by any means, but it's hardly unfair.

    You know what's fucking unfair? The final boss of Etherlords (old TBS and card game hybrid) on impossible difficulty, because on impossible your enemy has an absurdly high chance (like close to 100%, not even joking) to activate a passive effect and the final boss's passive effect is "block all damage taken", which he can activate every time you deal damage to him, effectively making him immune to any damage you can do. The only way to go around it is to level a skill that decreases the activation chance of the enemy's passive. Unfortunately, in the very last mission the game decides to take away your hero, which you have been leveling for the entire campaign, and give you a special hero that does not have this skill, so you'll be fighting an enemy that cannot be damaged by your attacks. So what do? The only way to win at this point is to make the boss lose to the timeout effect (if the battle takes too long, both sides start taking unresistable damage), but the boss has a lot more HP than your hero, so you have to use healing spells and overheal like crazy for the entire fight. Playing as a faction without any healing spells? Well fuck you then, better restart the entire campaign.

    Or the final boss of Labyrinth of Touhou (indie JRPG dungeon crawler) because at some point in the fight it starts regenerating all the damage you dealt to it in the previous turn until you fulfill a bunch of arbitrary conditions. The game doesn't tell you about these conditions and it also does not tell you that the boss is even regenerating HP (no HP bars on enemies, no numbers indicating regeneration), making you think that you are damaging it, when you are, in fact, not.

    I think the label "unfair" should be reserved for shit like this and not for a fight that merely requires a bit of effort and practice.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. Dyskolos Cipher

    Dyskolos
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    Eumeswil
    I agree but for the people who aren't just spewing retarded nonsense, I think it's the placement in the DLC. Native DS3 set the 'rulebook' of expectations and when the DLC - trying to go beyond and offer something new (3 stages, one with 2 fully independent bosses) - appeared to 'violate' the original rules people moaned. Doubly so because a bunch of people probably just jumped into an old save game and were months out of gameplay rhythm anyway.

    Not that I think it applies here but the above is one of the few things I really find a weakness of the souls model - that something sold on and attracting players for difficulty suffers from pressure to constantly up the ante. Nioh I loved through NG+2 (?, can't even remember now) and expansion 1 but dropped because they lost creativity and opted for a stubbed toe to one shot you and for all new bosses to default into cancer stun combos. From is about the only company I trust to dodge that trap.
     
    ^ Top  
  4. Silva Arcane

    Silva
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,093
    Three phases where she comes back with full life meter is the same for me as the criticism you do to the game where the boss regenerates.

    And about the "it's just a matter of memorizing all three phases", Dancer manages to be as complex or more than her in a single (or two? can't remember) phase without regenerating. Oh and without backup from old man with cauldron.

    When the game reaches the point where bosses equal regenerating back again and again with different movesets and two-shots-kill moves, the series may as well die already.
     
    • butthurt butthurt x 3
    • Shit Shit x 2
    • Bro, do you even lift? Bro, do you even lift? x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,508
    All the dark souls bosses regenerate hp anyways, just slowly (well, butterfly does it fairly quickly). And there's functionally no difference between having multiple life bars and having one big life bar except for a one time 'gotcha' moment.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Somberlain Arcane Zionist Agent

    Somberlain
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    5,855
    Location:
    Finland
    Friede can be stunlocked easily since she doesn't have any poise except on some special moves. You can pretty much bully her with ultra weapons.
     
    • Yes Yes x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Excited! Excited! x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,508
    That's exactly what I did. Great hammer ftw. Was kinda funny giving her the ol' charged R2 instead of backstabs for the extra damage as well.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Silva Arcane

    Silva
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,093
    So you're defending a boss that you defeated by using the most cheesy (besides pyro) build in the game.

    [​IMG]

    What's the point in playing a game in a way that nullifies most of the bosses moves? Why don't you use a fucking cheat engine already?
     
    • retadred retadred x 4
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • /facepalm/ /facepalm/ x 1
    • WTF am I reading WTF am I reading x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. Seigneur Voland Barely Literate

    Seigneur Voland
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2019
    Messages:
    2
    The biggest problem with Friede is that the combat is too long, the longest in the entire serie. The second phase is pure boring shit, cheese or not cheese.

    Typically the kind of boss fight i don't want to see in Sekiro.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    ^ Top  
  10. Silva Arcane

    Silva
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,093
    Yes, the lesson here is: Friede is NOT an example to be followed no matter how you look at it. You wanna make a boss difficult then make it, but not by giving it 3 phases with new life bars each. It's lazy design. Period.
     
    • Brofist x 1
    • Agree x 1
    • Disagree x 1
    • No x 1
    • butthurt x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. Somberlain Arcane Zionist Agent

    Somberlain
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    5,855
    Location:
    Finland
    Friede may have three phases but she doesn't have a lot of health. All three phases' health bars combined are probably lower than many other bosses' one and only health bar. Like, what does it matter if a boss has three small life bars or one big life bar? IMO, a three phase fight like Friede is much more fun than a one phase fight that takes just as long but has less variety.

    I just checked a bunch of gameplay videos I've recorded of various Souls bosses and Friede didn't take much if any longer than most other tough bosses when you skip all the cutscenes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas! x 1
    ^ Top  
  12. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    10,890
    Yeah, fuck Friede.

    And fuck "fighting game" bosses in general. I'd love them to bring back Demon's Souls type bosses, designed for atmosphere and awesomeness. Sadly this is not gonna happen coz brainless tryhard faggots demand only one boss type copy-pasted throughout the entire fucking world. And From is indulging them because they don't wanna hear reeeeeing about "gymmyck" and also it's much easier for them to plop down another jumping, flailing humanoid than trying to come up with something actually inventive and interesting.
     
    • Brofist x 5
    • Agree x 5
    • Disagree x 3
    • hopw roewur ne x 1
    • NPC #61873 came up with this opinion all by his / herself x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. D_X Arcane Patron

    D_X
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,111
    Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Yup, Friede's 3 health bars are no where near as bad as Gael's single life bar that takes 4 eons to clear.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Morgoth Arcane

    Morgoth
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    23,848
    Location:
    Apple Strudel Food Inspection GmbH
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Shit Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. Silva Arcane

    Silva
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,093
    ^ Top  
  16. Suicidal Arcane

    Suicidal
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,538
    Location:
    Worstest cuntry EU
    I'll have to disagree here. For me Friede and the regenerating boss I mentioned are fundamentally different and here is why:

    When fighting Friede you are always aware that you are making progress with the fight. Dark Souls, at the very least, is consistent in the fact that no matter which boss you fight, as long as you keep hitting it and its HP goes down, then you can be sure that you are on the right track (with the exception of Bed of Chaos, which you barely have to attack at all). Bosses that come back with new moves after you deplete their HP bar are nothing new and I didn't feel like I was cheated or anything when she came back for the 3rd time. Once you see the 3rd form, you pretty much know what to expect and all that remains is to practice and be patient and eventually you win.

    However, the regenerating boss from Labyrinth of Touhou is unfair bullshit. Why? Because the game lies to you (or rather, withholds crucial information) about how the fight works. Once you enter the regeneration phase (yes that boss has phases too), you have no idea that it even happens. You just keep damaging the boss thinking that eventually you will kill it. After all, you can see that your abilities are doing damage. You spend 10 turns damaging it and think "well it probably has a lot of HP, I must be getting closer, right?". You spend 5 more turns but the result is the same. Eventually you die not knowing that you haven't even taken the boss's HP down since the phase started. The problem with that fight is that even if you completely remove the regeneration mechanic, it still is one of the hardest bosses I've ever seen in an RPG because of how much shit you have to deal with - constant party-wide nukes, instant death spells, annoying statuses, boss giving itself free turns and the fight essentially being on a timer. It's hard to survive, let alone figure out the secret behind its invincibility that you don't even know exists. Worst part about it - the key to disabling its regeneration involves doing the opposite of what you've been doing in the previous phase. I admit, I googled that shit, because after fighting it for so long and being stuck on the same part without understanding what am I doing wrong I got frustrated. And that's the difference between a boss that's merely challenging and the boss that's unfair bullshit - I don't have to google how to beat the former.

    For me to consider Friede "unfair" the game would need to do shit like, for example, forcing you to fight her with a shitty special weapon that's worse than what you have been using or making the boss's HP bar invisible and in the 2nd phase once you get their HP to 0, they starts regenerating quickly unless you make the cauldron guy splash lava on Friede 3 times or something stupid like that.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. abnaxus Arcane

    abnaxus
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2010
    Messages:
    17,558
    Location:
    Khatovar
     
    • hopw roewur ne hopw roewur ne x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. Surf Solar cannot into womynz

    Surf Solar
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    8,526

    A game full of bed of chaos bossfights maybe?:troll:
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Sweat gathers upon my brow, let me dab it Sweat gathers upon my brow, let me dab it x 1
    • When words are not enough When words are not enough x 1
    • butthurt butthurt x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. sullynathan Magister

    sullynathan
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Messages:
    4,281
    Location:
    Not Europe
    "Muh atmospheric bosses" "muh awesomeness"

    :roll:

    New video

     
    • Excited! Excited! x 2
    • Racist Racist x 1
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. CyberWhale Arcane

    CyberWhale
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,391
    Location:
    Fortress of Solitude
    Looks awesome TBH.
     
    • Yes Yes x 5
    • Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas! x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Multidirectional Arcane

    Multidirectional
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,957
    Location:
    Lithuania
    This is the only game I'm really looking forward to. Please don't disappoint, From..
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    ^ Top  
  22. sullynathan Magister

    sullynathan
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Messages:
    4,281
    Location:
    Not Europe
    Wait a minute, did you even beat demons souls or did you just watch a YouTube playthrough?
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • STOP! posting STOP! posting x 1
    • it is a mystery it is a mystery x 1
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. deuxhero Arcane

    deuxhero
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,471
    Location:
    Flowery Land
     
    ^ Top  
  24. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    10,890
    I crushed the CD, melted it and ingested through my anus you dumb dildo.
     
    • Funny x 2
    • Prestigious x 2
    • Fabulously Optimistic x 2
    • nice x 1
    • incline x 1
    • Salute x 1
    • [citation needed] x 1
    • Slurp this person's delicious asshole x 1
    • Excited! x 1
    • what? x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. sullynathan Magister

    sullynathan
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Messages:
    4,281
    Location:
    Not Europe
    Gay
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • incline incline x 1
    • M'lady M'lady x 1
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)