Sell me on Gothic 1 and the series in general!

[Outlander]

Well I guess the story is spoiled now to nilco lol. But yeah, the initial goal is just to escape the colony. It is only later in the game that the Sleeper reveals itself through the pot-smoking loonies at the swamp camp.

 

[nilco]

LoPan, Im sure thats what the story says, but as soon as I heard about the sect of the sleeper I knew that the sleeper would be somekind of demon bent on world destruction, and as the latest arival of unnamed heroes I knew it was to be my job of saving the world

 

[LoPan]

I don't really know if I spoiled it. It's a pretty weird story, not sure if it is poorly told or just not as simple as it seems. It is arguable that you didn't really save the world either, just the immediate area. If I recall correctly, the orcs were no friends to the mind-walking demon lord and the biggest threat to the human kingdom is orcs, and so if the demon succeeded there would be a counter to orcs roaming about, creating a balance of power, or mutual enemy which could unite orcs and humans.

I can't say I have any affection for a 'save the world story' but it is the story of nearly all video games which shows how variable the premise is, but also how it would be strange to cringe at the prospect of a 'save the world' story and somehow manage to play any video game.

 

[Ringhausen]

The world saving, chosen one stuff is as said rather vague and not the emphasis of the game. The Sleeper being evil was indeed predictable, simply because he's called that and his worshippers are bald lunatics. Still the story is perfectly fine for a video game, as I understand all the dialogue was written by one guy, who also worked on other stuff. And there are some other twists in the plot.

 

[LoPan]

I think the 'chosen one' aspect can only be glimpsed from the Necromancer mumbling something about if/maybe/possibly you could perhaps/fuck if I know be the one in a nondescript prophecy. Not sure if they were serious or making some sort of satirical meta-joke; it was not held up or mentioned since, and though I have not finished Gothic 2 I don't recall there ever being a hint towards the main character being the subject of a prophecy.

 

[Outlander]

There is a subtle hint in G1 about some old prophecy, but it's nothing explicit.

Unlike in G2 where Xardas teleports you in and tells you "Dragon bad, go kill dragon."

G1 rocks

 

[Nomask Alt]

Skip it, and play Night of the Raven instead.

Here is Paula Tormeson IV (that would be me) on the best RPG of the first decade of 2000:

Arcanum, good for what it is, was just the old stuff extended over a larger area, like Fallout that received nerve damage and grew unnaturally big. And NWN was a MMORPG that occasionally larped a single-player game. I would not call that innovative either. The last decade was indeed incredibly bland and dull, if your standard is what-could-have-been instead of what came before, although it was a pretty feeble period however you look at it.​

The only RPG that was something seriously new was Gothic 2: Night of the Raven, and even though it was the only RPG that was something seriously new, most RPG gamers did not notice that it was, since the herald of it, Gothic 2, was superficially the same thing, and, in turn, looked somewhat similar to its prequel, Gothic.​

The whole development was like a man taking his first step on the dark moon's surface, but you had seen many steps taken before, and it was likely, albeit wrong, that you would see the moon-step as just another step too. What really happened was that we had a genre which focused on travel quests ("find this item", "deliver that note", "talk to Paul on the other side of X"), but did not have interesting travel. Night of the Raven made travel interesting, fun, and CHALLENGING.​

In this game, you don't seek out monsters for easy xp on your messenger trip to a friendly neighbouring castle — the monsters seek YOU out, and you will want to avoid them if your life means anything to you. That's how I experienced it, anyway.​

 

[CorpseZeb]

Should Risen be included when talking about the series? It's a Gothic in all but name.

No, not really, I think. While Risen is nice game, its biggest problem is... being nice, soft, cake a like, game. Stark contrast to the G1.

Ps. ... and has an unhealthy amount of women... and one brothel even...

 

[Ringhausen]

I think the 'chosen one' aspect can only be glimpsed from the Necromancer mumbling something about if/maybe/possibly you could perhaps/fuck if I know be the one in a nondescript prophecy. Not sure if they were serious or making some sort of satirical meta-joke; it was not held up or mentioned since, and though I have not finished Gothic 2 I don't recall there ever being a hint towards the main character being the subject of a prophecy.

Saving the world and being the chosen tend to go hand in hand. Both were only hinted upon with the letter from the king and some stray lines by Xardas.

If I recall correctly, the orcs were no friends to the mind-walking demon

The rebel priest mentions that they summoned it to help them fight the humans but they ended up getting enslaved. And for some reason he needs humans to fully enter the world?

 

[eric__s]

Gothic 1 and 2 are excellent games because of the feeling of desperation and helplessness in them. You're a prisoner in both - in the first you're a literal prisoner trapped behind a magical barrier and in the second, you're trapped on an island and your ultimate goal is to get off - and the restriction of mobility, both physical and social, is what makes them interesting. In Gothic 1, tired, desperate men have built these crude societies that barely function and are held together by brute force and fear. Your character starts weak and at the bottom of the totem pole in a world where literally everything is out to get you. The fun comes from growing stronger and climbing the social ladder, becoming something from nothing, sort of like a fantasy Horatio Alger novel. Gothic 2 is similar in that you start as a nobody in an incredibly hostile world and have to work your way to power. It refines the mechanics but loses some of the oppression and brutality of the first game. Character growth is one of the most fun aspects of the game and your growth is both statistical and social. Climbing another rung in the world's social hierarchy is always difficult but feels well-earned and is a lot of fun.

The exploration is the other part that makes the game stand out. The worlds are large and detailed - some of the best I've ever seen in a game - and there are things to see and do everywhere. They're constructed in a way that emphasizes the prison and personal growth themes - powerful enemies block certain areas and you can only fully explore them once you're strong enough to take them on. The context of the exploration is also important. Although the worlds are huge and open, you're always a prisoner and the goal is to escape. Gothic 3 changes the context of exploration and it suffers a lot from it - you're not a prisoner trying to prove your worth in a shitty, brutal microcosm of criminals, but a free explorer in an open world. You're also not a weak nobody, but a competent warrior who can take on most enemies from the very beginning. The world just isn't as dangerous or hostile.

Definitely check out Gothic 1 and Gothic 2 with the Night of the Raven expansion. If you really get into them, you should try 3 but it's a pretty big disappointment. Risen and Risen 2 are also both good games from the same people that build on the formula, but Gothic 1 and 2 are definitely the best.

 

[LoPan]

If I recall correctly, the orcs were no friends to the mind-walking demon

The rebel priest mentions that they summoned it to help them fight the humans but they ended up getting enslaved. And for some reason he needs humans to fully enter the world?

But it was never really elaborated, the rebel priest and the general populace of sky-high swamp-people also showed that the mind-walking dream-demon was hardly all that potent a mind-controller. He could influence people to follow like Sauron influenced orcs and goblins, he seems only able to influence over a really long period of time or if the subject is already predisposed, and at this point it is arguably not mind control.

I'm floundering here, but it was never quite clear to me, and I'm not sure it was made quite clear to anyone, what the mind-walking dream-demon actually did, was capable of or was planning to do. As such I'm not sure if you saved the world or merely pulled off the incredible feat of defeating some sort of arch-nether-demon in its incomplete form.

 

[Ringhausen]

You're right, most of the sect camp jumps ship when they find out what the Sleeper is and most orcs are eating and dancing around fireplaces. Only a small number of followers go nuts and follow him seriously.

I also rechecked the letter to Xardas and it says that they consider the sect a threat to the ore shipments (why?) and want to find out which god they worship and how they get their magic. The way it ends with "May Innos protect us" is pretty sly. Not that there's anything concrete to prove you are a avatar, maybe it's something they stamp onto all their heroes.

 

[Outlander]

There's a water mage in G2 preaching in Khorinis (was he Vatras?), this is what he says:

But the light was a torment to Beliar,
and all that Innos created was destroyed by Beliar.

But Adanos saw that this way,
nothing could exist at all.
No light, and no darkness.

And so he set himself between his brothers
in order to reconcile their dispute,
and he did not succeed.

But there where Adanos stood,
was a place in which Innos and Beliar had no power.

And in this place order and chaos were equal,
and so the sea was created.

And the sea released the land, and there arose all creatures,
trees as well as animals, wolfs as well as sheep.
And last of all, arose the Human!

And Adanos was pleased with what had arisen,
and he delighted in all the beings equally.

But so great was the wrath of Beliar,
that he came across the land and chose the Beast.
And Beliar spoke to it, and the Beast became his subject.

And Beliar gave unto it a portion of his divine power,
so that it might destroy the land.

But Innos beheld what Beliar had done,
and he also bestowed the land and chose the Human!
And the Human became his subject.

And Innos gave unto him a portion of his divine power,
so that he might undo the work of Beliar.

And Beliar spoke to another creature,
but Adanos brought forth the tide
and the creature was washed from the face of the Earth!

But with it, the trees and animals were also washed away,
and a deep sadness overcame Adanos.

And thus spoke Adanos to his brothers:
"Never again shall you walk upon my land,
for it is sacred. And so shall it be!"

But the Human and the Beast waged war upon the land of Adanos,
and the wrath of the Gods was with them.

And the Human slew the Beast,
and it entered into Beliar's realm.

But Adanos saw that order and chaos were now unequal,
and he bid Innos to take his divine power from the Human.
And Innos, in his wisdom, did so.

But Adanos feared for the day in which
the Beast would return to the land.

And so he bid Innos to leave a part of his divine power
in his realm, so that he may restore it to the Human
if the Beast should return.
And Innos, in his wisdom, did so.

I think the last paragraph indirectly references the events in G1.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Should Risen be included when talking about the series? It's a Gothic in all but name.

No, not really, I think. While Risen is nice game, its biggest problem is... being nice, soft, cake a like, game. Stark contrast to the G1.

Ps. ... and has an unhealthy amount of women... and one brothel even...

What you talking about? Risen takes place directly after one of the endings in Gothic 3. It has many hints to characters from Gothic such as Mendoza mentioning Xardas and the pirate girl's father being Captain Greg from Night of the Raven.

 

[Metro]

Oblivion (atmosphere was nice)

You're beyond all hope.

 

[nilco]

Oblivion (atmosphere was nice)

You're beyond all hope.

Hey, hey clam down there tiger, I said the atmosphere was nice, it felt like a real world in that the scenery was vastly different and such. Never said I liked the game itself or thought it was good. So dont judge me!

 

[Metro]

You have been judged.

 

[Outlander]

 

[Deleted member 7219]

The atmosphere in Oblivion was fucking horrible. Generic medieval crap, creepy faces, everyone sounds the same, bad writing, abandonment of the lore.

 

[Outlander]

Not to mention NPCs staring at walls for hours and the incessant gossip about mudcrabs.

 

[Data4]

That's it. This HAS to be someone's alt.

 

[Nomask Alt]

That's it. This HAS to be someone's alt.

Of course. HAS to be. Why not ban him to boot, like every newcomer for over a year because they were all "Bryce"?

 

[Data4]

I don't give a fuck how old, tired, and cliche this is. Butthurt detected.

 

[CorpseZeb]

What you talking about? Risen takes place directly after one of the endings in Gothic 3. It has many hints to characters from Gothic such as Mendoza mentioning Xardas and the pirate girl's father being Captain Greg from Night of the Raven.

Thanks, I stand corrected, but... I was wrote more about Risen general atmosphere, not the plot/setting. Risen has very lightheart approach, imho, or maybe it's just that tropical settings... and brothel...

 

[Hobo Elf]

What you talking about? Risen takes place directly after one of the endings in Gothic 3. It has many hints to characters from Gothic such as Mendoza mentioning Xardas and the pirate girl's father being Captain Greg from Night of the Raven.

Thanks, I stand corrected, but... I was wrote more about Risen general atmosphere, not the plot/setting. Risen has very lightheart approach, imho, or maybe it's just that tropical settings... and brothel...

Are we forgetting that Gothic 2 had a brothel too? Having a brothel in a port town makes sense. Sailors come, sell their goods and then have fat pockets. What better way to spend the money than on women, especially after being on a long voyage without seeing a female for weeks? It's a very profitable endeavor. Just think of it from the perspective of the prostitutes: they don't have any other means of making a living. Most money will be made by fishing and trading and women won't be allowed into those roles. It's basic ecology, really.

I'll agree with the tropical setting though, but only because I'm sick of it. Seems like every single FPS is in a tropical setting now because it's a gimmicky way to show "good" graphics.