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KickStarter Sentinels of Freedom - superhero turn-based tactics

LESS T_T

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Codex 2014
Steam page:

 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/underbite/sentinels-of-freedom/posts/2612386
Sometimes good is not enough
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Posted by Underbite Games
September 3, 2019
Creator
Sometimes good is not enough

That's how we felt about our previous combat system: fun, but not very meaningful. We hit the whiteboards and, by pushing some existing systems and adding some new ones, came up with something we feel is awesome.

First off, in Sentinels of Freedom, there are two "rolls." The first is checking to see if you hit and represents your accuracy. The second is how much damage you inflict. Both the old and new system use this concept but have significantly different results.

So what changed?

More Info

To start with, we wanted wanted to provide as much information as we could to allow for more informed decisions. When an attack is chosen, highlighting a target will provide some important basic information.

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The chance to hit the target is shown first, followed by the matchup between Attack Type and Defense Type with the resulting potential damage. The last bit of info here is the current health of the target.

For most attacks, this is all that is needed to make a decision; however, if there are any questions - maybe the accuracy is really low, for instance, or the damage is not maxed out - additional information is shown in the Info Panel.

In the Info Panel, accuracy bonuses and penalties are clearly displayed, along with the current matchup between attack and defense. These explain the "why" to the quick info so you can make adjustments to the current or future attacks, if needed.

Adding to the idea of more info, a line of sight (LoS) display was added. This LoS display shows all available targets and how obstructed potential attacks are from the location.

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Movement

It's hard to hit a moving target - even harder to shoot while moving. While the initial system incorporated speed into accuracy, we felt the impact was not enough with the impact only being around 10% of your chance to hit. With the new system, the impact is more like 20-40% making the choice of moving more critical. Faster characters for instance, (who typically have lower health) can stay alive with hit-and-run tactics. Often, lining up a range attack on a fast target means staying put or choosing another target. However, melee attacks receive a bonus when the attacker is faster - allowing the full momentum to be felt.

Facing

Even a mindless thug can put up some kind of defense when attacked head on. Facing has a huge impact on the chance to hit, with frontal assaults drawing a penalty and back attacks providing a bonus. When selecting a target, the display will show which facing the attack will hit.

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Attack vs Defense Type

Once the attack hits, the next calculation is damage. Originally, this value could vary drastically. Often, an attack could do anything from 2 to around 50 damage in similar situations. This can be very frustrating in a tactics game.

In the new system, we utilize a kind of Rock, Paper, Scissors (Lizard, Spock) method to determine the base hit "roll". Neutral matchups produce average damage, while strong offensive matchup have a potential for critical damage. Weaker offensive matches will still do damage but often at a cost of additional Action Points, representing the extra effort required to land such an attack.

We did away with the typical "elemental" or "projectile" categories and went with an "Onomatopoeia" damage and defense. This method not only supports the game's theme, but also provides more flexibility in creating the character abilities.

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While each type does have a base description of what kind of attack it represents, there is some flexibility. For example, a "Thokk!" Attack is usually a kind of heavy physical attack while a "Ping!" Attack will usually be a quick lighting attack. Both of these could be used for either melee or ranged attacks. This allows characters to have a variety of different attacks and defenses while still holding onto their theme.

While other factors could have an impact on the final damage, typically if an attack hits, it will do damage. The values of this damage are also shown when an ability is chosen.

Archetype Equality

In the previous system, choosing to do damage always seemed optimal over choosing support actions. With the potential of targets that are consistently harder to hit or deal enough damage to, support characters are of high importance. Target too fast? How about they get their movement reduced by 50%? Is there an enemy that seems to always do max damage? Buff a hero with an additional defense type to minimize the chance of crits. We feel this new system allows all heroes a chance to shine!
 

J1M

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quick lighting attack

Attacks that cost more if your opponent has defenses. That's certainly... innovative.

I like damage types, but these aren't anchored to an existing mental model, so they will not work well.
 

thesheeep

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I like damage types, but these aren't anchored to an existing mental model, so they will not work well.
True, I also can't quite see this working out well in practice. You'll constantly be hovering your mouse over each enemy to check who is resistant and who isn't - that is, if that information is actually shown.

Some standards are standards for a reason ;)
 

thesheeep

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Some standards are standards for a reason ;)
That reason being incapability of some people to learn new things?
Not incapability, but unwillingness.
And in this case, it's just not necessary.
Why do something like this if a classic RPS scheme as used by other games would have worked just as well?

Especially if it means going for something nobody has any relation to whatsoever like "zaark!". What is "zaark"? I have no idea, so I'd need to read it all up.
Was it just named "plasma" or whatever it actually stands for, everyone would immediately have something fitting in mind without having to read it up.

This, however, is just awkwardness for the sake of itself, which is never good design.
The damage types here won't be anything new or unseen, they'll just have weird names.
It's like playing "rock, paper and scissors", but naming it "fump, wump and dump" just because.
 

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Yeah, I don't mind getting used to new systems, but there's a big difference between "Lasers are good against steel armor, plasma is good against energy shields" or "Spears are good against cavalry, swords are good against infantry" and "Zzoop is good againt Foom, Sproing is good against Blam". Excuse me, what?

Yes, Thonk and Pingg and Zzap are all common comic book onomatopoeia for hitting dudes with attacks. But they're way too abstract for the players to be able to get a good grip on them.
Yes, Thonk sounds like a heavy fist punch while Zaakt sounds like a quick punch or a lightning attack or something. But it's still too abstract, it's not half as self-evident and easy to grasp as "Arrows are weak against shields, but axes are strong against shields".

We'll see how it looks in-game. It might be more logical when you see it within context.
 

J1M

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It will be garbage. It's a classic designer mistake. They created something that they, with their limited math skills, consider mathematically balanced and elegant. But good design isn't about making everything balanced. When the feedback comes in they will believe the design is correct, but that people just didn't get it, and respond by adding really long tooltips or paragraphs of tutorial text.

If this was really a brilliant idea the defenses wouldn't be called things like "block" and "deflect", they would be called "thud!" and "boing!".
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/underbite/sentinels-of-freedom/posts/2696020
Video Update
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Underbite GamesCreator
November 27, 2019
We are happy to share a video with commentary on the current progress of Sentinels of Freedom. While we are happy with where the game is at, please be aware that we are currently polishing and balancing - which will continue until we ship early next year - so not everything is final.

Next video planned is custom hero assets. We will be able to show off many of the Kickstarter items requested by backers at various pledge levels!

Feel free to post questions if you are curious about something you see. We hope you enjoy!
 

Infinitron

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Delayed to April: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/underbite/sentinels-of-freedom/posts/2739898

January Update

Hello! We are finishing up a major internal milestone and wanted to provide some updates before posting live to the world.

While development is moving along very well, we hit a slight snag in production. As you know, Greater Than Games is handling the writing to make sure the story is authentic to the property as well as engaging. Christopher and his team are doing a fantastic job, however the process is much more involved than they had expected. This is the first time they have written for a video game and it is proving to be a large but enjoyable process. They have requested a bit more time to work with the story so we will be pushing the release date to April.

While the story outline and missions have been set for a very long time, the dialogue is the part that needs the additional time. There are dialogue "branches" that greatly increase the content along with the flexibility of which character is actually on the mission.

Since the missions and story outline are complete, we are still able to complete the level designs, characters, and challenges. The final touches to Part 1 are all being wrapped up this week! The team will be focusing on implementing story as we receive it along with further balancing and testing.

We will also be heavily pushing forward onto Part 2, which will include some of the Kickstarter unlocked heroes, additional villains, and more hero abilities. The Hero Builder is just about ready as well so that will be releasing for you all to enjoy soon too.

Finally, we want to invite and encourage you all to ask questions and request sneak peaks of anything you are interested in seeing and learning about. Facebook and Discord are two great places to submit these requests. Now that the lion's share of the work is done, we can finally engage more regularly with you all and we are looking forward to it!
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/underbite/sentinels-of-freedom/posts/2779662
Update on Story and Schedule

We have been working really hard finishing up the story art - everything is written for chapter 1. If you have missed the post on Facebook, the story is all being done in a comic style.

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We are really happy with how these are coming out. One of the challenges was the custom hero since that has so many options. We had to develop a system that allowed us to place a 3D character into the 2D images with a similar art style. This also applied when the team shows up in a comic slide. Because you can choose who goes on a mission - that also has to be dynamic.

To provide an idea of scope, the story script is almost 60 pages (half of a movie script) long and we will have about 200 images that make up the story comics!

NINTENDO SWITCH

Yes, the game is coming to Nintendo Switch. We had hoped before running the Kickstarter, we would have known but that was out of our hands. Nintendo is pretty difficult for indies to "work with" on things like Kickstarter but we would like to get interest. If you are interested in switching to Switch for one of your purchases, please fill out this form. If we are limited by quantity, it will be 1st come 1st serve basis. We do want to clarify that it is possible we may not be able to make this happen.

Switch Form

Some of you might be curious why we are leading with Switch and PC? The simple answer is that development on Switch is very similar to PC so for minimal amount of time we launch on both.

SCHEDULE

We are planning to ship on PC and Switch on April 15th. These are the easiest for us to have ready. Xbox and PS4 will follow along with Chapter 2.

Wait Chapter 2 you say? Yes, we are heavily in Chapter 2 already. Not all of the team can be working on the story so we made use of the time to develop content for Chapter 2.

Consoles are the next priority but it is likely that both the consoles and Chapter 2 will come out together. We do not have a firm date but feel pretty confident in saying it will be before GenCon (end of July). For those who got the console version, we will work to get you that version earlier then the actual release version - along with a preview of Chapter 2.

KICKSTARTER SUPPORT

Being honest, we have not taken care of you Kickstarters they we we wanted to. With the extended times and complexity, we have not had the resource we hoped to do the extras we wanted.

However, with the lion's share of the work done, we do strongly feel moving forward that we can schedule the time we need to give back to the Kickstarter Community. As we progress with Chapter 2, we will be fulfilling the Kickstarter extras and engaging you much more.

This includes things like an exclusive discord channel for feedback. As we update the game - the feedback can heavily shape the changes we make. With our first game, Super Dungeon Tactics, the game shifted greatly as more people played. We also added a ton of content along the way too.

Thanks,

Underbite Games
 

MRY

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I liked Freedom Force a fair bit back in the day, though I found the combat system only okay and the character creation absurdly easy to minmax (it turned out that a guy who could punch hard quickly and run fast was better than every other super hero combined, as I recall). Looking at this, I'm reminded that really the only thing that made FF so enjoyable was the successful Silver Age comic book aesthetics. The cel shaded anime 3D art in those storyboards doesn't really invoke any similar reaction to me; it doesn't even feel like a comic book game.
 

Silly Germans

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Is this also silly and cheesy like Freedom Force ? That made half of the charm for me.
 

ERYFKRAD

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Is this also silly and cheesy like Freedom Force ? That made half of the charm for me.
Sadly it isn't. It doesn't have that vibe. It's character customizer is ok and the missions at least have varied objectives, but I'm finding it damn easy, or my character is stupidly good.
 
Last edited:

Galdred

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I liked Freedom Force a fair bit back in the day, though I found the combat system only okay and the character creation absurdly easy to minmax (it turned out that a guy who could punch hard quickly and run fast was better than every other super hero combined, as I recall). Looking at this, I'm reminded that really the only thing that made FF so enjoyable was the successful Silver Age comic book aesthetics. The cel shaded anime 3D art in those storyboards doesn't really invoke any similar reaction to me; it doesn't even feel like a comic book game.
That and the destructible environment, and high damage output of your characters (compared to the targets' health). Attrition based gameplay with no environmental damage doesn't work as well.
 

Sloul

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So, how is the game? I was extremely interested and ready to buy asap, but the mixed reviews on steam put me on hold.
I heard the game is too easy, is it true?
 

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