Shadowrun Shadowrun Returns Pre-Release Thread

I put forward the idea that decisions that cut out stuff that requires multiple thousands of clicks per interesting thought or scenario generated (in this case, clip quartermastering) is not gamist or mass market LCD, but merely human-friendly design. If you would ever logically prefer to offload some busywork to a macro or triggered script, that tedious shit shouldn't have been in the game in the first place. This is not precious shotguns shells in a Mad Max game, this is bullets in Shadowrun. How many interesting things did ammo do in the Genesis version of Shadowrun?

 

PnP is another story. You don't track normal ammo mainly because tracking this sort of minutia is a pain in the ass and the odds are that everyone will forget to edit their sheets after reloading and regular rounds being cheap and widely available justifies you not bothering to register them since your characters are all armed to the teeth anyway. But common sense still applies and ammo is only as infinite as the GM wants, if you are doing full auto fires all the time like you're rambo he might rule that after this reload you notice you only have 4 clips left.

It's the kind of sacrifice you make for the sake of playability, not really necessary in a computer game. I'm getting tired of repeating this.

 

Yeah? Adventuring gear can fall into common sense depending on the GM and the type of adventure.

 

I don't get it man.

 

Depends on the character level there. If you're a brand new party of level 1-3ish adventurers sure. If the party's level 10+ and has bags of holding and/or portable holes and shit it's relatively safe to assume some basics like that depending on your DM. And if the DM doesn't want to assume things like that I believe there are a few magic items (I wanna say a cloak) that are basically just full of generic items like that. No more worrying about lugging a trusty 10 foot trap poking pole through narrow dungeon corridors when you've got extra-dimensional bags.

What really gets fun and ridiculous is when you start getting to epic level and you're getting massive piles of treasure and have to work out the logistics of how the fuck you're going to move all that gold around. If you're a wizard you can just pop it on the astral plane or something and hope for the best, but otherwise it involves some effort. That was one thing I liked in Neverwinter Nights 2 actually, when you killed that one dragon and had to have wagons from your keep cart the gold back. Exchanging gold for gems can only help you so much.

No idea on any of this Shadowrun stuff of course since this game'll be my first real encounter with the setting apart from hearing about it vaguely over the years. For example I can understand what Excidium's saying about the ammo, but bullets aren't terribly light. Depending how many bullets get tossed around in a Shadowrun adventure (Again, no idea) I would think weight could be an issue. Especially if you wanted to concern yourself with loose bullets vs magazines/clips. Can understand wanting to abstract it out through. Only so much busywork is entertaining in pen and paper which was largely why I liked D20 so much. I felt like it hit the perfect balance of depth/granularity and ease of use.

 

That's not the same thing and you kn- oh, it's you. Nevermind, then

 

What do i think about the promised mod-ability:
Weidu like programming language (language that operates on game data and can merge many mods by operating on this data) or bust.
Also, some kind of runtime scripts are a must.

 

Nope, you don't track ammo in pnp because the GM does that for you, and tells you 'oops, you are out' at the worst possible moment. Or you don't even know how much ammo you have in the first place :paranoia:


Also, ITT we learn that Baldur's Gate, where a quiver of 99 arrows costs like 5gp, is the pinnacle of ammo management design. And that there are people who actually manage to run out of arrows.

 

WHY FRIEND COMPUTER. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!?

 

Because you touch yourself at night are a mutant communist traitor.

 

I hate counting bullets in CRPG unless it fits in well with the game design or settting. It makes sense in JA2 since it's a "management" kind of game and how you've got different types of ammo for different situations, it makes sense in games like Borderlands to have you run out of assault rifle ammo in the middle of a difficult bossfight in order to encourage you to experiment with different types of weapons and it makes sense in FO due to the low supply setting.

Shadowrunners tend to be prepared for their missions on Batman-like levels, so I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that your standard runner is literally clinking as he walks with spare clips and shells. I see no problem with an ammo-less environment. In fact, I considered the "infinite reloads" part of Xcom 2012 to be one of the very few areas in which it was better than the original. Cuts down on tedious micromanagement for your MANY soldiers that didn't really add much to the game while still keeping the tension of not emptying your gun at the wrong time.

 

Reasons not to use automatic fire in Shadowrun Returns:
It'll use up all your AP for that turn (everyone starts with two, they have the ability to upgrade to 3 plus one more temporarily with an item/spell buff)
You take an accuracy penalty
You'll use up more of your magazine and have to spend AP to reload more often

Although this also depends heavily on what kind of content they'll have.

 

Not necessarily a drawback, depends on the situation. You shouldn't spray'n'pray all the time, anyway.

Manageable with the right equipment (harness, stabilizers, etc.). This depends on the level of gear customization that is in the game, admittedly.

If you kill the bastard with autofire, while a series of single shots wouldn't be as effective, this is a non issue. You'd have to reload sooner or later anyway.

Yes, it's situational and we do not know a lot of variables, so it's actually too early to tell one way or the other.

 

I expect this'll follow the zero-to-god path just like every other thing so auto-fire will likely be the default action by endgame regardless of whether or not ammo is limited.

 

I'll reiterate: Limiting ammo that's cheap and easily buyable makes only sense when there's some sort of weight and/or size restriction system (see: JA2). If there isn't one, there's no real point of doing that.
However, I find no excuses for having infinite special bullets.

 

They said there'll be a limited number of item slots in your inventory, but your personal stash at home will let you store whatever.

I doubt special bullets exist. They've shown that grenades are limited.

 

I think they've mentioned them, but I could be wrong.

 

Cyberpunk 2020 had mercury bullets. Those'd fuck shit (including the gun) up, man.

 

I think it's unlikely considering a) SNES and Genesis Shadowruns didn't have it (SNES Shadowrun had unlimited ammo too ) b) "Right now, there are concussion grenades and frag grenades in the game. We don't want this to become GrenadeCommander. But if there's time (yeah, right) we might get some more" and c) "Yes, there will be stores but equipment is not a major part of the game. As you can see, we put our time elsewhere."

 

Now that's pretty cool.

 

Harebrained Schemes