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KickStarter Shenmue 3

Zer0wing

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The total immershun aspect was totally out of place though, Ryu is so stupid in Shenmue 2 it became an immersion break. Although he's a village baboon so who am I to blame.

Still, playing IRL is not fun even with action-packed story. Were Shenmue series a bestseller in Germany btw?
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Having finally played the original Shenmue, I feel the most curious thing about its story is that it's basically 90% filler.

(The game really hasn't aged very gracefully besides its presentation)

The total immershun aspect was totally out of place though, Ryu is so stupid in Shenmue 2 it became an immersion break. Although he's a village baboon so who am I to blame.

Still, playing IRL is not fun even with action-packed story. Were Shenmue series a bestseller in Germany btw?
I think it's more that it doesn't really do much with the IRL stuff or the action stuff (though in case of latter that's okay, since the "let's try using fighting game controls in an action game" fad was horribly misguided). I never really felt immersed in the world because the only characters that weren't complete drive-by's were Ine, Fubrohara, and Nozomi (worst offenders being the supposed other two best friends of Ryo, who I saw only once in a cutscene). It really could have used a less passive structure with more nuance to it, since a lot of its world is basically wallpaper that you can't really do anything with.

To me the most interesting bits were really where I can see the ancestral elements for Ryu Ga Gotoku that would get improved and refined into the best open world series.


Another thing tho about Shenmue to me that left me taking a break before tackling 2 was that it didn't feel very engaging because most of the time you were just running from point A to point B, so you could then run to point C. Occasionally you'd get into a fight with sailors (who I learned are the most evil of people) or some equivalent lowlifes. I was most enthusiastic at the start of the game, since I felt that this detective thing would open up in a very logical manner where you get an objective and have many ways to approach it (but it ended up feeling like you have only a single path forward after Charlie), and I had a similar interest in combing through all of the secret basement. But that's ultimately a pretty small fraction of the game, where you mostly run or wait at a training area by repeating the same move over and over again (since I was modestly interested in seeing how moves alter, even if I found that parrying and basic kick combo was by far the most optimal way just about all the time).

Still, I feel Shenmue has unique historical value, seeing how many of the things it tried first would get picked up and used later.
 
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aweigh

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The entire sequence when Ryo meets the asian gurl at the end of Shenmue 2 is really really good, and a good example of proper game writing. Very well done sequence.
 

taxalot

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While the Yakuza series obviously make for better their gaming, they are still taking a different approach than what Shenmue did. The first Shenmue for example has a slow pace that is part of the reason why it's so great ; it feels a bit more life-like, somewhat nostalgic, of what's growing up in a small town back before the Internet existed, where everyone knows each others and the days just go by. A lot of details has been spent in the days and lives of every character on the screen, and that goes for more than just schedules. It's something you simply don't get in the Yakuza series, which is also great in itself.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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I agree that the slow pace is interesting, and going for a more down-to-earth style of setting and feel. However, I feel there's two contradictory elements to this that work against the idea realizing itself: First is the dynamic time working the way it does, it ultimately just makes it impossible to relax and let yourself sink into the world because you're in a constant hurry. Second is that it both transitions to martial arts epic abruptly, quickly, and clumsily, which is made worse when these two contradictory styles start to overlap (the harbor and Mad Angels bit is to me easily the low point of the game). These both I feel are compounded by the fact the world engages you in a very passive manner, since as I mentioned I never really got a sense of Ryo's other two friends were anything more than just throwaway NPCs. I suppose this overall problem with Shenmue in this regard is that I feel it doesn't fully realize its idea of slower pace and the mundane and indeed sweetly nostalgic small town settig.

The other major problem (I'm entirely going to disregard that its controls have aged very poorly, since that's only really a grating thing when you start and when you fight Gollum for such a long time; similarly I'm not going to how the lack of stuff to do in the world against the game since it did everything it could with what was available at the time) is really just that you end up with a lot of repetition. I suppose a good comparison of this is how Shenmue handles the forklift minigames, and how Yakuza handles for example the hostess club minigame. The forklift minigames take a relatively huge amount of time, and the race is always the same. There's a bit of fun in figuring out how you can handle the crates most efficiently. But overall it just takes too long. By contrast, the hostess club minigame is fast as hell, with a sense of working towards something, and very importantly it comes with its own side story and characters.

If anything, I wish Shenmue had been more slow. I would have liked to see Ryo actually go to school before dropping out, I'd have liked to have at least some neighbourhood cop (since it just comes off as strange how the only time cops are even mentioned is if you try and call them at the start and Ryo's all like "fuck da poleez, revenge time nao"). Get to the Phoenix Mirror, Gollum, and Master Chen much much later, not before Ryo's figured out Lan Di's going to Hong Kong. Also, design of the game could have either been focused and given more action or puzzles so it's not point A -> point B most of the time, or given a more open-ended structure (I'd prefer the former) where you have lots of ways to get to Hong Kong. Focus is also something it could have used (ie, cut the harbor, focus on Dobuita and Sakuragaoka), since while indeed there's a lot of thought put into the characters there's ultimately very little many of them have to do for you or time to visit them. This is another thing I feel Yakuza improves on, since while it doesn't populate a small community it does focus and create very memorable characters and situations, while also adding a whole lot of big heart and compassion to things; Shenmue I feel is too passive with its NPCs, and Ryo is not quite the local superhero that Kiryu is. Of course, this is kind of a key difference between the two games, where Ryo is despite blatant shounen protagonism's a fairly rooted part of his world. Kiryu on the other hand is larger than life and very much a Hero that is unshaken and insurmountable who is here to save the day of anyone he encounters because that's his mancode (although I'd say a thing that separates Kiryu and his co-protags in Yakuza from the usual video game fare is the level of empathy and compassion they engage the world with, they aren't brooding angry edgelord sorts but confident manly men with hearts even bigger than their fighting prowess). Though this is also often used for contrast humour in all the situations the baddest dude in Japan ends up in and deals with sincerely and earnestly.
 
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Zer0wing

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If anything, Shenmue should have less robotic movement. Controls are the weakest part of these games, money can be duped at a casino and walkthrough can be optimized from the players side.

Controls and Camera of course. Camera positioning should also be moved upwards to only have visible back, not to 'look' into Ryos asshole.
 

Higher Animal

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The real tragedy is in letting the ideas behind the combat system die out. Shenmue had this new paradigm which combined real time twitch with role playing adventure. In order to get certain moves you had to discover them through the story, but just because you had them didn't mean that al you had to do was press a single button at the right time, they happened in the context of a fight against AI. This meant you needed to discover the move, and then practice it, and then deploy it at a time which makes sense. This isn't really in any game that I can think of.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Nah the combat system is p shit. It's overly complicated within its own context (vast majority of moves are completely superfluous), actively contradictory to its control scheme, camera, and fight design. There isn't really anything positive about it. It's yet another example of the truth that everything Shenmue did, Yakuza does better.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Judging by the first game, I'm not ruling out that Ryo failed to notice that he's no longer a virgin. He's rather dense when it comes to the subject.
 
Vatnik Wumao
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At least the graphics look on par with the previous entries in the series. But in all seriousness, the yakuza series is technically rather primitive compared to similar games of its type but succeeds through good execution of its concept. So S3 might still work out.
 

abnaxus

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In Hong Kong he beat that fat crime boss and a master of Tiger Swallow and now he's back to losing to random Hokuto no Ken thugs.
 
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While the Yakuza series obviously make for better their gaming, they are still taking a different approach than what Shenmue did. The first Shenmue for example has a slow pace that is part of the reason why it's so great ; it feels a bit more life-like, somewhat nostalgic, of what's growing up in a small town back before the Internet existed, where everyone knows each others and the days just go by. A lot of details has been spent in the days and lives of every character on the screen, and that goes for more than just schedules. It's something you simply don't get in the Yakuza series, which is also great in itself.

I was kind of surprised how different the two were when I finally got to play a Yakuza game given how similar they look to be at first glance. Yakuza is very much a modern River City Ransom, where Shenmue is coming more from a RPG angle.
 
Vatnik Wumao
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While the Yakuza series obviously make for better their gaming, they are still taking a different approach than what Shenmue did. The first Shenmue for example has a slow pace that is part of the reason why it's so great ; it feels a bit more life-like, somewhat nostalgic, of what's growing up in a small town back before the Internet existed, where everyone knows each others and the days just go by. A lot of details has been spent in the days and lives of every character on the screen, and that goes for more than just schedules. It's something you simply don't get in the Yakuza series, which is also great in itself.

I was kind of surprised how different the two were when I finally got to play a Yakuza game given how similar they look to be at first glance. Yakuza is very much a modern River City Ransom, where Shenmue is coming more from a RPG angle.


Yakuza is apparently draws inspiration from the "Battles Without Honor or Humanity" series of movies while Shenmue borrows heavily from B grade Hong Kong action movies. The superficial similarities probably spring from the original inspirations being cinematic in origin.
 

ZoddGuts

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Apr 15, 2013
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People need to reign on their expectations on this game, it's a Kickstarter game. The first two games had a high budget for them but not this one. I'm not expecting stuff like voice lip syncing and facial animations to be on par with AAA games. They still have 5 months left until it goes gold, but even then I'm not expecting much improvement in those areas. As long the game delivers with the gameplay and story, I'm willing to overlook it's jankiness.
 

Misco Jones

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Shenmue-III-Forklift_04-11-19.jpg
 

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