Should I play JA2 1.13?

[opium fiend]

I know there's a fuckton of threads about the mod, but none spend too much space about 1.13 AI. I'm interested in AI and not gun porn and whatnot, so I'm wondering is it really that better than in vanilla? Flanking, roof climbing, smart tactics etc? Is it worth it just for that? Thanks

yeah and the weather. I like weather.

 

[RK47]

It's not just guns that gets improved, but the amount of troops you face and their equipment.
I'd say stick to vanilla to get familiarized then if it got too easy, go 1.13

 

[opium fiend]

that's the problem, I am very familiar with vanilla, but being a chronic restarter moron, I rarely go past Cambria and surroundings before I quit. So I'm neither here nor there.

 

[RK47]

Heck go for it then.
The Drassen take over may go smoothly at first, but the subsequent attack will not get easier.
Deidranna is really seriously out to kill you all.

 

[spectre]

If you have trouble completing vanilla, it may be also troublesome to finish 1.13, unless you switch playing more agressively.
Though that depends on the ini settings. 1.13 is very customizable and you can make some changes to the game's progression.

 

[Morkar Left]

I started with 1.13 and had no problem with the improvements and additional content except Drassen counterattack which makes sense storywise but not from a gameplay point of view. Just check the config options and choose what you like. Should be no problem for you especially when you're already familiar with the base game.

 

[opium fiend]

Okay, I'll try it, what the hell. The trouble I had with finishing vanilla was mostly based on my incredible ocd and insistence on playing IRON MAN game, so when a merc I like bites it, it's either move on or reload and I didn't want to do either.

I started reading the mod's docs, but god, they're huge, so any tips on how to make the experience the most vanilla like would be appreciated. It says that some features don't work well in old 640x480 resolution, I assume they mean binoculars and snipers? I can't stand small laptop and tiny figures on screen...

 

[Johannes]

Not sure maybe you should just pick something else altogether, I heard this game is overrated and sucks.

 

[Wizfall]

Not long ago i said it was quite easy to play vanilla style with 1.13.
Well i was damn wrong.
It is doable but you have to change a lot of things which take not only lot of time but also lot of knowledge.
Resolution 800*600 is fine if your laptop is a 17.

Anyway main things to do if you want to play 1.13 vanilla style :
- disable Drassen Counter attack, disable reinforcement (nice feature though but...) and ambush
- select old chance to hit (switchable anytime during the campaign), I like New chance to hit (NCth) better but that's a big change from vanilla.
- select helicopter vanilla behavior (quite important, otherwise totally change the pace of the game, and not in a good way IMO)
- very important because it breaks the game mid/late : edit all scopes with the xml editor that come with the mod : decrease a lot all sight bonus or even remove them, also greatly reduce all scopes magnification bonus (except for scopex2).
There are for sure many other things to do (but certainly not as important) but the one above are really the big one that comes to my mind right now

But above all read the jag.ini carefully, almost everything is there and it's quite easy to understand.
It takes much time but one you know what everything does, it's a blast.

 

[spectre]

Not sure maybe you should just pick something else altogether, I heard this game is overrated and sucks.

Nah, that's vanilla JA2, 1.13 is something different. Though we should probably wait for some expert opinion.

There's lots of stuff to roll back to get the vanilla experience. Weather, new character creation, counterattacks, roaming militias... basically what Whizzfall says - scour the ini, and when you see something unfamilar, switch to disable. It all comes with nice little descriptions so you should be good. It's mostly just time consuming if you have to go over all of the stuff.

Unfortunately, there's some changes in the item stats as well. E.g. some scopes have a to hit penalty which somehow offended me on a personal level.

 

[Khor1255]

I know there's a fuckton of threads about the mod, but none spend too much space about 1.13 AI. I'm interested in AI and not gun porn and whatnot, so I'm wondering is it really that better than in vanilla? Flanking, roof climbing, smart tactics etc? Is it worth it just for that? Thanks

yeah and the weather. I like weather.

Much water has gone under the bridge since I was involved in the 1.13 so my info is dated. I'm sure a few others here have a much better current knowledge.

When I was playing the best improvement to the AI was that they could climb roofs. But they also did some weird crap to the pathing and the chance to hit that made the AI (in my opinion) worse than in vanilla. I would hope they fixed this by now but have lost track of the newer changes.

Even with any potential weirdness, playing the 1.13 should pretty much be a must do if you like vanilla. The thing that finally frustrated me away from the mod was not the gameplay so much as the fact they did some crap that broke certain story change mods and the mod I was working on was intended as basically a brand new storyline that just used existing triggers. The other gameplay thing I remember is many of the new attachments available to the player were not usable by the AI. This is an inconsistency that goes all the way back to vanilla however so it's not so much as an intentional player exploit (like some of the 1.13 features) but rather a lack of proper coding in place for AIs going from attachment to gun and back again.

Hope this helps.

 

[The_scorpion]

@OP

Yes, you should.








and if you don't like this or that, you can moan and bitch about it here. i'll certainly read it

 

[Khor1255]

I'm not really sure how scopes worked but grenade launchers attached to weapons would often mean the enemy using his under-slung grenade launcher until he was out of grenades then attack you hand to hand with a loaded gun in his hand. They used to be unable to switch back. Not sure if they fixed that.

 

[Shaewaroz]

Maybe first try the vanilla and then move to 1.13.

 

[bert]

Should I play JA2 1.13?

yes

 

[Khor1255]

Maybe first try the vanilla and then move to 1.13.

That is definitely the way to go.

 

[opium fiend]

Ok, thanks guys for your input, I will probably install the mod tonight and try to play with .ini

whatevername's post concerns me, though, it would even seem that the AI's been dumbed down. Definitely not what I want out of this mod.

 

[spectre]

Dumbed down, I wouldn't say. It's been ages since I played vanilla, but IIRC 1.13 actually made improvements to the AI.

 

[Somberlain]

JA 1.13 is the only game where inventory management is actually fun.

 

[opium fiend]

Ok, finally started this, INSANE mode, brace for rape and all that. What is your opinion on new skill system, is it overpowered? I choose sniper for my IMP girl.

 

[Severian Silk]

I've read things about INSANE mode. Some people think it makes the game much harder at first, but much easier later on because you've collected all the top gear already. You might find better balance on some of the lower difficulty levels. :shrug:

 

[spectre]

opium fiend not that I would want to sway you from the good path, but being an OCD chronic restarter and all that, insane might not be the best choice if you're planning to actually beat the game this time - it mostly adds tedium, not difficulty - especially if you know what you're doing.
Depending on your settings (drop all, cash for selling stuff) and whether you're willing to dick around with some mechanics (beat them up and steal their stuff), insane means you're more or less swimming in good items from all the elites.

 

[opium fiend]

Good point. And good thing I'm still in Omerta. What are the best settings for item progression and Bobby Ray's so that I don't get the best toys early but still get to see them by the time I'm in Meduna? No "drop all" and no stealing and shit like that, ofc.

I still don't want to give up on INSANE, for some reason...

 

[Baron Dupek]

Yeah I got better time on lower difficulty levels when I could experiment with not-often-using weapons (like cowboys repeaters) and ideas (like machete raep squads with magnum sidearms).

Higher difficulties? They're fun at the begining, then it become same shit like in the earlier playthroughts, with assault rifles (all accesories), nightvisions (compared to game start when you got single NV or none) and else....

 

[whatevername]

Good point. And good thing I'm still in Omerta. What are the best settings for item progression and Bobby Ray's so that I don't get the best toys early but still get to see them by the time I'm in Meduna? No "drop all" and no stealing and shit like that, ofc.

I still don't want to give up on INSANE, for some reason...

....

Ok, thanks guys for your input, I will probably install the mod tonight and try to play with .ini

whatevername's post concerns me, though, it would even seem that the AI's been dumbed down. Definitely not what I want out of this mod.

Item progression defines enemy weapon availabilty, depending on your progress (explored map sectors, # of cities held, maybe quests completed). Like pistols->smgs->rifles->ar->sniper. With the lowest setting you can capture 1-2 towns, sit in them for 100 days and the enemy will be armed with pistols only.

Spoiler

With the slowest item progression you can find that bounty hunter dude,loot his FAMAS off his corpse and then pwn everyone while they're only carrying pistols.

Bobby Ray's settings on low is like vanilla, on the highest setting BR will have everything in stock on day 1.

...................

I don't think it was dumbed down, I'd rather say unable to use new features.
Here's some of the stupid shit that the AI can do: throwing nightsticks instead of grenades and then not exploring the lit area, quitting pursuit after 2 turns, staying in the center of the map while being shot at, switching to a knife and leeroying in a 10 vs 10 firefight. Militia is even dumber, but that might be on purpose.