Should RPGs let you blow up locked doors with fireballs? DISCUSS

[Roguey]

We're talking about a roleplaying model where a mage's fireball can destroy a group of kobolds but can never be used to break through a door, "because those are the rules". Is that really what we invented computer games for?

Josh Sawyer says: If you want to open a locked door, invest in lockpicking.

Of course it's perfectly fine to make a door-bursting game if you don't even bother with the inclusion of a lockpicking skill.

 

[Excidium II]

Of course it's perfectly fine to make a door-bursting game if you don't even bother with the inclusion of a lockpicking skill.

Or if you implement a noise system.

 

[Lhynn]

Josh Sawyer says: If you want to open a locked door, invest in lockpicking.

Shit, you just managed to make me hate a man.

 

[Roguey]

Or if you implement a noise system.

Josh sez: No one cares about this.

 

[Alex]

Of course it's perfectly fine to make a door-bursting game if you don't even bother with the inclusion of a lockpicking skill.

Or if you implement a noise system.

Or if you just ignore Sawyer, like you should.

 

[Excidium II]

Or if you implement a noise system.

Josh sez: No one cares about this.

I care. GG

 

[Roguey]

I care. GG

Yes, well Josh has others to think about.

Some players absolutely do not care about making noise or alerting enemies, so they would happily blast away at every other door hinge/lock with a combat shotgun.

 

[Lhynn]

I care. GG

Yes, well Josh has others to think about.

Some players absolutely do not care about making noise or alerting enemies, so they would happily blast away at every other door hinge/lock with a combat shotgun.

And why does he think this is a problem?

 

[Excidium II]

Because Sawyer designs games for people on the level of deathclaw chest guy.

 

[Infinitron]

Successful Rogueybait is successful

 

[Roguey]

And why does he think this is a problem?

Then you have a skill that absolutely no one takes except Role Players who don't care about making a less-than-optimal character.

I didn't bother with lockpicking at all in D:OS, I fireballed everything locked. Worked out fine.

 

[Excidium II]

And why does he think this is a problem?

Then you have a skill that absolutely no one takes except Role Players who don't care about making a less-than-optimal character.

I didn't bother with lockpicking at all in D:OS, I fireballed everything locked. Worked out fine.

If people can aggro every monster in the map at the same time and survive with no issues, game has bigger problems than an useless skill.

 

[Lhynn]

Then you have a skill that absolutely no one takes except Role Players who don't care about making a less-than-optimal character.

Why would no one take it? just put a couple ramifications to destroying doors and thats it. Maybe some npc will get mad, maybe you cant save another NPC if you blow that door, etc. Its not even hard to implement.

I didn't bother with lockpicking at all in D:OS, I fireballed everything locked. Worked out fine.

Because no one cared you were blowing shit up. Its not hard to come up with a way in which a player will if it has an effect in how the game plays out.

 

[Roguey]

If people can aggro every monster in the map at the same time and survive with no issues, game has bigger problems than an useless skill.

This isn't a problem at all if you kill everything first and then blow up locks.

(additionally, if they can hear a fireball blow open a door, why wouldn't they be able to hear a fireball blow up people?)

Why would no one take it? just put a couple ramifications to destroying doors and thats it. Maybe some npc will get mad, maybe you cant save another NPC if you blow that door, etc. Its not even hard to implement.

This only matters for civilized areas. If the game takes place in a city with no sewer level nonsense, then okay.

 

[Excidium II]

This isn't a problem at all if you kill everything first and then blow up locks.

...

In that case you should consider just using the key you looted from the owner's corpse.

 

[Lhynn]

This only matters for civilized areas. If the game takes place in a city with no sewer level nonsense, then okay.

Why cant it take place in both? why cant the ramifications of breaking in in a violent way be heavy enough to justify the expenditure. Why are RPGs so fucking afraid of being real RPGs?
So fucking afraid that they hide behind shitty gamey systems over and over again until it makes me want to puke. You see roguey, i think sawyer is part of the problem, like many other developers before him and many more that will come, he simply does not understand what makes an RPG worth playing.

...
In that case you should consider just using the key you looted from the owner's corpse.

To justify your picklocks point expenditure, no one in the world has the key.

 

[Excidium II]

To justify your picklocks point expenditure, no one in the world has the key.

And the chest is glued to the ground.

 

[Roguey]

In that case you should consider just using the key you looted from the owner's corpse.

How many RPGs have a key for every locked door and chest? I can't think of any off-hand.

Why cant it take place in both?

Because in places where you're supposed to kill everyone anyway it doesn't matter.

 

[Excidium II]

In that case you should consider just using the key you looted from the owner's corpse.

How many RPGs have a key for every locked door and chest? I can't think of any off-hand.

None as it doesn't make sense. It's just an example.

The point is that locked things shouldn't exist just to justify lockpicking as a skill. Lockpicking should be useful mostly for stealthy approaches.

 

[Lhynn]

Because in places where you're supposed to kill everyone anyway it doesn't matter.

I dont see a problem with this, youd still want points for civilized bits, and to save time at the dungeon, also as an alternative if you dont have the destructive power needed to blow shit up, many archetypes dont, and if spells are tied to a limited resource you may not want to waste them on doors. also ever heard of traps?

 

[Jaesun]

I CAN'T QUIT YOU SAWYER!

 

[Excidium II]

Hope whoever keeps deleting posts and splitting threads get colon cancer to experience real butthurt.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Josh Sawyer says: If you want to open a locked door, invest in lockpicking.

Of course it's perfectly fine to make a door-bursting game if you don't even bother with the inclusion of a lockpicking skill.

Real men roll a d20 (or d6 in 1st edition) and check against their Open Doors number on the Strength table.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

That's what I liked in Wasteland 2 tbh. They went to great lengths to make the environment interaction wide open. There's plenty of ways to go get past locked areas, not to mention there's often multiple entry points.

 

[Veelq]

Lockpicking can be use to unlock or to lock the door.
Also locked room can be use for safety rest places. When you decide to destroy all the doors, you can rest there but its unsafe. Just a quick idea.