Should some Class-Race combinations be forbidden?

Or should an "Anything Goes" principle apply?

Typically, one sees the orcish barbarian, the human priest, the hobbit bard, the elven mage, and the dwarven fighter. That's the standard, that feels just right, and so that's the way things are done.

So surely I am not the only who feels a little jarred with a module/campaign for NWN2 (or anything fantasy/D&D related) which may include as recruitables an orcish mage, a dwarven bard, a hobbit barbarian, or some awkward combination.

It is possible to see the point. Maybe an orcish mage can get the best of both worlds. But shouldn't that kind of hybrid be forbidden or have extra penalties included? Precisely for that reason?

 

No it's just you.

Really.

I dont see anything funny about a hobbit barbarian or dwarven bard.

I dont play them, purely because I like humans. But I dont see those combinations odd or anything.

 

Depends on the setting. There is a good reason dwarves can't be mages in Dragon age, and the cannibal-barbarian halflings of Dark Sun seem OK to me.

 

In P&P awkward and gimped cobinations can be the most fun to play if your dm is creative. I once played an outcast dwarf treehuger. Epic lulz ensued. There are very few things as boring in gaming as munchkinism.

 

Yes, unless it's impossible within the setting's constraints (like when some races are innately magic-sterile and so can't be mages). But it should be allowed in 99% of the cases, in fact, these "unusual" class-race combos are usually the most fun in PnP as was already mentioned.

I see absolutely no reason why "race" should disallow a class, just so your race fits a common stereotype (like a burly bearded axe-wielding dorf).

 

It depends.

Primarily, it depends on your system for doling out supernatural powers.

Some races may not have that spark for arcane or psionic powers.

Golem Psionicist? Maybe not.

Some races may also be conceptualized as inherently resistant to arcane magic and thus not eligible to train it.

Some deities or other entities capable of granting divine powers may not accept the worship of some races (or even nationalities).

Ghoul Paladin of St. Cuthbert? Maybe not.

Some races may also be conceptualized as otherwise ineligible to gain divine powers, for example Demi-Gods in Crawl.

 

If its a stat-based reason (golems aren't magical enough to know magic), it should be controlled by stats (golems have 5 int max, need 15 for magic). The less reliant upon arbitrary restrictions and the more reliant upon standard gameplay mechanics, the better.

 

It's entirely based on the campaign setting. It's less of a stretch to imagine halfling druids than dwarf mages, but that's only because it's closer to the bias you originally agreed with long ago. I'd love to see some broken stereotypes like the Dark Sun halflings again.

 

Not unless the combination is for some reason not merely culturally implausible, but physically impossible, such as if the race physically can't wield magic. Although perhaps it would be nice to warn the player that what he's proposing is a terrible idea and why. But let him do it anyway.

Of course, you could allow it anyway...with all the attendant consequences of a guy who wants to be a wizard but can't actually cast spells.

 

This.

Everything goes should be the leading principle, unless something is not merely improbable but there are good in-universe reason it simply cannot occur.
Improbable combinations might be regulated by requiring specific perks or backgrounds.

All in all, I like playing atypical combinations.

 

Esp. in Dark Sun

The difference is whether something is culturally improbable or physically impossible. If halflings simply do not possess that mystical stuffie which makes people able to do magic, well, there is *no* way a halfling would do magic. OTOH, having a bodily strength of a 5 years old does not technically prevent anyone from trying to be a barbarian, so sure, have fun playing one if you enjoy stepping on your own balls so much.

 

One should also distinguish the dichotomy of autocratic classes (that a character can have simply by training) and "prestige" classes (that a character must be initiated into by will of someone else than himself). Thus I find the idea of non-human paladins queer in post-2nd Ed. D&D. If paladins are supposed be members of knightly orders, how come non-humans can be accepted (since a knight's concept is somewhat existant only in Western human culture)? On the other hand, anyone with sufficient tracking and survival skills can become a ranger, since this is more like a freelance profession.

 

Why do we even call it race? Shouldn't it be species?

 

Species usually don't interbreed, unlike races.

 

In D&D, all sentient and semi-sentient species can breed.

There is a guidebook that determines the odds of successful mating. Orc and giant may have 1% chance of successfully producing an offspring.

So as long as they can interbreed, they are races, not species.

 

I'm biased against "unlikely" class/race combos due to the terrible D&D novels I forced myself to read where Dwarven druids, Kender knights, and whatnot were featured prominently for the lulz, and lulz is bad.



Much better if every race has its own take on an archetype. So in a setting where humans and elves would have their classic mages, orcs would have shamans, tunnel-dwelling gnomes would have geomancers, and that race of weird insect ppl would have a spell casting class that utilizes some magical gland that only 1 in 10 specimen are born with - effectively mages but with their own spell selection and unique perks that reflect their particular circumstance.

Similarly, if humans have barbarians and your hobbit race must have barbarians too, they better have a plausible reason for their existence. And "growing up among human barbarians" isn't one.

 

So Thri-Kreen can interbreed with mammals? That seems... implausible.

Maybe race is just a term left over from the earlier days when all player races were slight variations of humanity? (dwarves, elves, halflings, gnomes,half-orcs, half-elves)

 

Whatever!

If you want to hobble your imagination, who are us to stand in your way. Hobble all you want.

 

Hey man! Orcs came over a lot to get accepted as mages! The segregated days of 2nd Edition are history!

Seriously though, like most people say, unless there is a damn good reason, you should be able to mix and match as much as you want. It allows for more character combinations and more fun.

 

Orcs are the main source of Druids in Eberron actually. Half-Orcs in PF make decent enough mages due to being completely different from 3.5 (one of the very few major changes in it that can't be described as "melee can't have nice things")

 

That definitely has potential.

In case of generic classes something somewhat similar could be used by spreading each races bonuses around rather than concentrating them in single area of expertise, but giving each race different combination of those bonuses.

 

Actually that does sound very cool. I think FFTA had something similar to that. Shit game, but good idea.

 

One time at Obsidian we played the Pathfinder campaign. There wasn't a stereotypical character in the whole bunch - and our DM, Andy Woo now at Riot Games, encouraged such creativity.

Josh Sawyer played a 60+ year old human cleric who started with 18 int, and like...12 wisdom. Father Oswyn I think his name was. He was abysmal at combat, but he could research anything and pass any intellectual skill check out there. He was even smarter than...

Our Dwarven Mage, played by Jeff Husges. I can't remember the mage's name, but his sole interest in magic arts was to become a superior craftsman... craftsperson. He was slow and plodding (until he got flight) but it was a lot of fun to have a mage with 19 con.

Adam Brennecke and I played as brothers. He played Jiminey Neverbleed, the half-elf barbarian, and I was Grubbs Neverbleed, the half-orc monk. I don't remember the specifics of the geography and demographics in Pathfinder, this was quite some time ago, but there was an area where some humans and elves lived near a border with some orc tribes. Jiminey was the son of a human female and an elf male. Later, an orc raid resulted in Grubbs. The father, left on a revenge raid and never made it back.

Jiminey lost his marbles and became a chaotic neutral barbarian who only had like a 16 str, which Adam was great at playing. Grubbs was raised by a monastary of something or another where Father Oswyn would occasionally visit and that's how he became a monk (a rather terrible one too). Our character story was that Jiminey was a mercenary, and I had promised our mother that I would watch our for him. This frequently involved Jiminey jumping into trouble and Grubbs following.

Anyway, I think if the narrative supports it, race and class combos should be fun - but in the end what it really justifies is a classless system where you build the character that fits your story and desire.

 

Anthony Davis is back! Or maybe he was always here!

 

Could also be somewhat left over from first edition in which there was no distinction between class and race.