Skill points allocation

[Vault Dweller]

I've been playing the game for a few days, but still holding on to the skill points, in case of stat-related quests like fixing well and teaching little girl music. So far, my party (3 main characters) have their primary skills at 35-45 which has been more than sufficient to deal with anything they've met so far. I have about 40-50 points left.

So I'm just curious about other players' experience. Did you try to max out or raise secondary combat skills to raise attributes or holding out for future quests. I recall one of the zero-sun guys mentioned that a quest to get a rare thaumaturgy skill ( i think ) requires a rarely used skill. I would hate to miss out on that just because I have only 10 in music (or whatever it is). Any opinions?[/quote]

 

[crpgnut]

I'm about two-thirds of the way through the game and my stats are just now reaching
that level. I'm not sure how many hours you've played in those few days, but if you're
not past the Barrier, in the main plot, I think you're going to get bored. The game isn't
meant to be played by camping and fighting til your skills are real high. If you're playing this like an Everquest game I feel you're in for a letdown. You could just be playing a whole lot, which means you're further along in the game than I am. I followed a path of
Kellen, Land's End, Citadel, Ironwood, Crossing East, and have just arrived in the Barrier
area. I generally save a few points, but I use most of them as I get them. I have noticed that my intelligent Acolyte character has way more skill points than the rest of the party. I believe this is because he levels his skills quickly through use. I put most of his points into Flame Magic which is around 52 right now. I never fixed the well, as I didn't have anyone skilled enough when I was there. I didn't teach a girl music either, I must have missed that one. Either that or I don't remember it....which town?

 

[reaver]

You 're saying what!!!

Is there actually a max in skillpoints (total of all skills)?
And if so what is the max?
[ I couldn't find it in the help-screen]

Pffff gues I 'll have to start over again...
so much for the infinite capacity of the mind.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I have noticed that my intelligent Acolyte character has way more skill points than the rest of the party. I believe this is because he levels his skills quickly through use.

Yes, the more intelligent a character, the faster that character is to learn new skills.

If there's a max, I sure haven't seen it, though.

 

[crpgnut]

Yes, the more intelligent a character, the faster that character is to learn new skills.

If there's a max, I sure haven't seen it, though.

No max as far as I can tell either. I'm not sure where he got that from. I told the original poster that if he'd been playing for a few days just stat building that he might be disappointed in the lack of a challenge. I find the game quite easy and I spend Zero amount of time "Leveling" my characters. I just got to the Barrier and it's shocking.
There are tons of people everywhere! I'm going to need to printscreen the map page and jot down who is located where for this town, just to keep track of everyone. A quick run-through made it look like there might be 15-20 quests in this town.

I want to finish and then replay it on hard. That'll be tough I bet. I have a feeling I may only be about halfway finished though after seeing the Barrier. Where are you at, in the game, SP?

 

[Vault Dweller]

When I said "max out" I referred to the style of gaming, when a player tries to reach the maximum 'possible' stat at the expense of other stats. English is not my native language, so possibly I used a misleading term.

As for the skills, I took the same route as you, crpgnut. I just reached the Barrier. I did not spend much time leveling up. I did 5-6 camping mostly for loot, but when I fought I used the quickest attacks to level faster.

Spoiler below


















Teachning music quest is actuallly follows the well quest, i.e after you fixed it you are asked to teach music. I did not do it 'cause I did not have enough skill points to raise music. I'm planning to return there later. Of course, it;s much easier to pay 50 bucks for admission, but I wanted to explore more of the land.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

No max as far as I can tell either. I'm not sure where he got that from. I told the original poster that if he'd been playing for a few days just stat building that he might be disappointed in the lack of a challenge. I find the game quite easy and I spend Zero amount of time "Leveling" my characters. I just got to the Barrier and it's shocking.
There are tons of people everywhere! I'm going to need to printscreen the map page and jot down who is located where for this town, just to keep track of everyone. A quick run-through made it look like there might be 15-20 quests in this town.

The only "levelling" I do is when I kill bandits so I can make money off their loot. I need to do that again, since I'm down to 170 drach.

I want to finish and then replay it on hard. That'll be tough I bet. I have a feeling I may only be about halfway finished though after seeing the Barrier. Where are you at, in the game, SP?

I'm currently being annoyed by the Priestess of Flame because she wants me to do all kinds of foolishness.

 

[CP]

I've been playing the game for a few days, but still holding on to the skill points, in case of stat-related quests like fixing well and teaching little girl music. So far, my party (3 main characters) have their primary skills at 35-45 which has been more than sufficient to deal with anything they've met so far. I have about 40-50 points left.

So I'm just curious about other players' experience. Did you try to max out or raise secondary combat skills to raise attributes or holding out for future quests. I recall one of the zero-sun guys mentioned that a quest to get a rare thaumaturgy skill ( i think ) requires a rarely used skill. I would hate to miss out on that just because I have only 10 in music (or whatever it is). Any opinions?

[/quote]


There are quests/feats that require very high levels of any given skill. There's one in particular that requires expertise of an otherwised rarely used skill. I don't want to spoil anything though -- I will if you insist :wink: . There are also things like doors/chests that require tinker skill of 60 or 70, etc.

We didn't expect anyone to be able to finish every quest in one game though. In fact, it's impossible to do so. Finishing certain quests will often open up new options while eliminating others. That said, I never held any skill points. But then again, I knew exactly how many skill points everything required


Thanks.


CP

 

[Kyminara]

I've been playing the game for a few days, but still holding on to the skill points, in case of stat-related quests like fixing well and teaching little girl music. So far, my party (3 main characters) have their primary skills at 35-45 which has been more than sufficient to deal with anything they've met so far. I have about 40-50 points left.

So I'm just curious about other players' experience. Did you try to max out or raise secondary combat skills to raise attributes or holding out for future quests. I recall one of the zero-sun guys mentioned that a quest to get a rare thaumaturgy skill ( i think ) requires a rarely used skill. I would hate to miss out on that just because I have only 10 in music (or whatever it is). Any opinions?[/

My skills weren't even that high when I reached the Barrier (although they probably should have been for some of the quests), but I skipped Crossing East and Ironwood, and went strait from the Citadel to the Barrier. It's hard to imagine how you got that many skill points so quickly, though. I always saved a few skill points just in case I needed a skill to be just a little higher, but I think it's better to raise your skills than to save the points. There are some things in the game that you may just miss because a skill isn't high enough, and you wouldn't even know you needed the skill. Just my thoughts.

 

[reaver]

Thanks for the info and saving my day: Saint_Proverbius and crpgnut.
Vault dweller we're human we're supposed to make mistakes, but plz don't scare me that much again.

As a real strategy gamer I'm always in for THE PERFECT game, if u know what I mean.

NO MAX: Quite a relief I must say, there's still a chance that someday my party will be perfectly skilled :D

 

[crpgnut]

NO MAX: Quite a relief I must say, there's still a chance that someday my party will be perfectly skilled :D

Well, yes and no. You can't learn all skills with each character. If you don't start the game with them, some skills seem to be unlearnable. You might be able to perfect each of the skills you started the game with though. I don't know. I've been kept away from the game for two straight days and it's driving me nuts.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

All skills that are readily usable are learnable. Speech, weapon skills so long as that person is using a weapon, armor skill, barter, and so on. Those are the skills I rarely tag because I know that my character will just simply learn them.

Here's a question though.. Does NATURE ever improve on it's own? My Farmer character doesn't seem to be advancing that skill, even though I'm constantly getting the requestors about how she hears something near by. Shouldn't this affect the skill?

 

[reaver]

I've been kept away from the game for two straight days and it's driving me nuts.

I know what u mean, I'm also kind of hooked.

Question; about the skill points is there any way of practising a particular skill?
For example when u don't have a high enough tinker skill, can u just hammer away on some fences/wells or something?
Also haven't found a tinker-teacher yet, maybe I didn't see him/her.

Well I guess I continue wandering around in the darkness.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yes, my archer has nature as part of the background, and she usually the one who warns me about hostile encounters. After awhile her skill went up, but only once so far.
She has Intelligence of 12

 

[crpgnut]

Barter

I've never had my barter skill increase and I trade all the time. I have to manually put points into barter for it to ever go up. Tinker is another one. For some reason there are very few locked doors and chests in the game. If you want tinker to go up, you'll need to find the one or two npcs who will train you in it. Either that, or adding the points manually.
Nature seems to be the same way. It never raises on its own. All the weapons and armor skills raise by use. Literacy never goes up, as far as I can tell. If you guys are getting barter to go up by trading, please let me know how.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yes, barter also goes up on its own. As the nature does. I believe I'm half way through the game, and both only gone up once. I can do nothing with the nature skill, but with barter I sell one item at a time, to increase the number of 'hits'. I would assume the game use the same algoritm to calculate when a skill goes up. While it works well for combat, speech, and magic, it goes very slowly with 'passive skills'. May be it's for the best though, kinda realistic. Plus you have plenty skill points to compensate for slow growth, also there are trainers. Dude in Citadel (locksmith) can teach you tinkering, and another guy in the Barrier can teach you bartering.

 

[thathmew]

note: 99 is the maximum skill level obtainable in any given skill, but skill improvements (either through XP or use) slow way down after 60, really at 60-70 you can consider yourself to have pretty much mastered a skill as far as the game is concerned.
It sounds like I need to up the barter and maybe nature improvement rates. But that is indeed what XP is generally for, the passive skills.
As a side note I was thinking that maybe it makes some sense to link skill improvement to other traits besides just intelligence, i.e. physically oriented (str, spd, dex, endurance)characters might find it slightly easier to improve combat skills and physically weak characters vice versa.
Any thoughts on that?
cheers,
-mat

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

It sounds like I need to up the barter and maybe nature improvement rates. But that is indeed what XP is generally for, the passive skills.

It would be nice if NATURE and BARTER went up a little faster. My Merchant is pretty smart, and I've never seen BARTER go up at all. My Farmer isn't that bright, so that might be why NATURE doesn't go up. NATURE occurs more often, so it's rate should be slower.

NATURE should also raise on the NATURE menu screen, to keep everyone in the party from getting raises in it just by travelling.

As a side note I was thinking that maybe it makes some sense to link skill improvement to other traits besides just intelligence, i.e. physically oriented (str, spd, dex, endurance)characters might find it slightly easier to improve combat skills and physically weak characters vice versa.
Any thoughts on that?

Speed kind of works like that already. If you have a good speed, you hit more often which gives you more "experience" with that weapon.

I'm not sure raising based on other things would be a good idea. I'm already getting fairly powerful, and I'm only in the Monastery.

I would like to see trainers and things for tinker. I don't think hammering on a fence would be a good way of training it, but there needs to be some non-XP-spending way of improving it.

The same thing goes for Literacy and Lore. You have the ability to play music in Taverns to not only earn a bit of money, but also improve the skill. Something for Litracy and Lore might be handy, like teaching a lesson in the school in The Barrier every so often? Reciting to a crowd in a market place?

I'd also like more opportunities to play music for people rather than just in the Tavern at night. Oh, and Taverns should give more money than they do for playing. A couple of coins was fine at 10-20 MUSIC skill, but I have 40 now, and I'm only making 15 or so coins.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I agree that there should be more ways to train, apply, and even be recognized for your skills. An example would be to train speech skill at the Seminary, teach later at the Academy, making some money; and finally be able to unite parties at the election via high skill and charisma instead of forcing votes via rods.

I think that there should be a good reason to raise all skills, not only primary ones. In Fallout 2 you had to have doctor skill at 75 to learn and get the implants, or science at 125 to get skynet brain for the robot. I'm not saying whether or not the robot was great or lame or implants helpful, but pointing at a unique reward for high skill unattainable by other means.

I would like to see more _role_playing in a RPG. I would expect a bard to be able to play not only in taverns but anywhere in a city, tinkering character should be able to fill in as an apprentice in most locksmith places, a decent swordsman can give lessons, just as a real party would have done arriving in a new city, unless of course they are loaded with loot

 

[Boogie With Stu]

Ack! I have been allocating my skill points all wrong! I'm a freaking moron. Since I'm still in the first town and have played a bit I'm happy to begin again with some skill point knowledge.

 

[Kyminara]

I agree that there should be more ways to train, apply, and even be recognized for your skills. An example would be to train speech skill at the Seminary, teach later at the Academy, making some money; and finally be able to unite parties at the election via high skill and charisma instead of forcing votes via rods.

I think that there should be a good reason to raise all skills, not only primary ones. In Fallout 2 you had to have doctor skill at 75 to learn and get the implants, or science at 125 to get skynet brain for the robot. I'm not saying whether or not the robot was great or lame or implants helpful, but pointing at a unique reward for high skill unattainable by other means.

I would like to see more _role_playing in a RPG. I would expect a bard to be able to play not only in taverns but anywhere in a city, tinkering character should be able to fill in as an apprentice in most locksmith places, a decent swordsman can give lessons, just as a real party would have done arriving in a new city, unless of course they are loaded with loot

I think the game gives plenty of opportunites to use and benefit from any skill. I admit, I was hoping to get more money playing in taverns when my bard had a music skill of 40, but there are also several quests where a high music skill is helpful. A high Speech skill is reward in itself, becuase it makes it easier to deal with almost every person you talk to. The same is for fighting skills and tinkering, you have these skills because you know you need them for certain tasks. You can't realistically expect to be able to gain money off of these skills everywhere you go. ("I know you don't know me, but can I work in your locksmith shop for a day or two?" )

The one exception I can think of would be Literacy and Lore. My character had a fairly high Literacy skill, and I just couldn't tell where it was used. What does Literacy and Lore help with?

I agree that it should be easier to raise certain skills. Nature and Barter didn't seem to raise at all for my characters, except when I put skill points into them, and Tinkering and Music raised very rarely. Combat skills can be easily raised just by hunting monsters, but for some skills, there is very little opportunity to practice them. Perhaps it would help to have guilds or some place where you could practice less commonly used skills for a fee?

As a side note I was thinking that maybe it makes some sense to link skill improvement to other traits besides just intelligence, i.e. physically oriented (str, spd, dex, endurance)characters might find it slightly easier to improve combat skills and physically weak characters vice versa.
Any thoughts on that?

That's a good idea. While Intelligence is important for learning most things, it seems fitting that a strong or agile person would learn to fight more quickly than a weaker smart person. Is it possible to base the chance to raise a skill half on Intelligence and half on the attribute related to the skill?

 

[HanoverF]

From all the writing in journals I do, my Literacy and Lore should be going up at least a little, heh.

 

[Vault Dweller]

("I know you don't know me, but can I work in your locksmith shop for a day or two?" )

That what a high-speech char in your party is for

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

The one exception I can think of would be Literacy and Lore. My character had a fairly high Literacy skill, and I just couldn't tell where it was used. What does Literacy and Lore help with?

There's a Scholar in Crossing East that won't have anything to do with you if you're not versed in Literacy and Lore. Literacy and Lore also seems to help when reading books at the Library of Liet in The Citadel.

 

[CP]

I agree that there should be more ways to train, apply, and even be recognized for your skills. An example would be to train speech skill at the Seminary, teach later at the Academy, making some money; and finally be able to unite parties at the election via high skill and charisma instead of forcing votes via rods.

There are trainers for almost every passive skill - maybe all of them... I can't remember without looking at the docs.

A FEW TRAINER SPOILERS:




Lit/Lore: In the Citadel one of the members of house char will teach you literacy. You also learn a huge amount of lit/lore if you vote House Liet into power.

Speech: Aufinius in the Barrier will improve your speech skill.

Tinker: Denomas will teach you this instead of joining your party if you choose. First you have to get him out of jail in Ironwood.

I would like to see more _role_playing in a RPG. I would expect a bard to be able to play not only in taverns but anywhere in a city, tinkering character should be able to fill in as an apprentice in most locksmith places, a decent swordsman can give lessons, just as a real party would have done arriving in a new city, unless of course they are loaded with loot

It would still be possible to have musicians play for more people. Do other people think this is a good idea? If so, when/where would you like to see it? Thanks.



CP