Skills in RPGs and their importance

[Murk]

What kinds of skills do you like to see in RPGs? How important do you want these skills to be? Should 'skill' just be another synonym for method of attack or should they define what your character can do outside of combat? How much focus should be placed on the skills availabel in question?

I am probably in the minority here but I actually dislike nearly all implementations of any kind of dialog/speech skill that I have come across so far. In most cases they function no differently than lockpicking - in that you reach an NPC that says "I don't think i should..." and if your skill is high enough in speech/diplomacy you pass the check and the NPC responds "ok". Contrast that with how often Intelligence/Wisdom is used and you find that you not only have a higher chance at getting what you want but you get expanded dialog options and access to more information in the process. Wisdom is the best stat to pump in PS:T because it not only lets you progress in many situations, allows you to recall memories, but also because it unlocks a gigantic assortment of dialog (Intelligence being a not too distant 2nd), as well ass the XP bonus (which at that point is just icing on the cake).

I would say that speech based skills should be implemented in that fashion - Bloodlines took a few steps in this direction and, domination and dementation aside, the other social skills allowed you to gain access to dialog choices that could lead to a desired outcome... or still a no-go based on what you said (that is, it wasn't a binary win/fail).

Having said that, I'd like skills to be a bigger factor in a character's functionality. Arcanum had something I liked in that stats/attributes not only gave you straight bonus/penalties but also served as indicators of your character's potential. A character with high Dex was potentially a very skilled fighter, thief, or archer provided the character actually trained and raised those skills.

Having played H&H for awhile I was amazed at how much use and importance skills had in the game above raw stats and how much the influenced your character's function in nearly everything it could do - and while that ended up in a WoW-like gear/item quality craze it did at least offer something in the right direction.

Anyway, enough rambling - I open the table to you gents then.

What skills do you like? What skills do you want to see? How do you want skills to be implemented in a game system at all? Feel free to mix and match and what have you.

 

[MetalCraze]

Skills are so last decade. Today RPGs are all about sitting behind a box and playing popamole, no matter what character you took. See Codex' most favorite best game evars this year.

 

[Dogffdog]

What skills do you like? What skills do you want to see? How do you want skills to be implemented in a game system at all? Feel free to mix and match and what have you.

Skills that matter, that are difficult to pump and therefore preclude the max-all-skills stuff, etc, etc.

I'd like to see an Interrogation/Torture skill that works in conjunction with anatomy or doctor and intimidation giving you an extra way to get things 'solved'.

 

[Fat Dragon]

Anyway, I like skills that have cool perks that come for investing in them. Arcanum as a quick example, had haggle not only help with buy/sell prices, but was also the only way to get access to the special blackmarket goods. It's nice when leveling a skill up gets you more interesting features than just a higher percentage when taking a skill check.

Crafting skills are also fun. I like tinkering around with things and being able to make a unique piece of gear to put to good use. Really, any good support skill. Crafting, alchemy, cooking, hunting, etc. I find it fun to get by on the stuff i build with my own hands rather than rely on the shitty newb equipment you'd buy in a shop.

 

[Murk]

Gadgeteer type classes are my favourite, probably why I always play a technologist in Arcanum. Literally making solutions to your problems is just so friggin' neat. Likewise I agree on the implementation of and supply of resources and situations for use of various crafting skills.

The Interrogation/Torture skill is a neat idea for evil inclined characters, or at least *ahem* renegade types but I imagine that would lend itself particularly to games that feature unwilling sources of information... which is a welcome change, I think. I always did find it ridiculous to use every humanoid you come across with a simple "greetings" as a portable encyclopaedia, especially in games like Torment where supposedly people were mostly unsociable (though many NPCs did attack you if you pressed 'em too much). I would like to see a situation where dialog is more of a mental game of chess with the NPC in which you try to get them to admit something and greather stats/skill in the appropriate categories would give you a wider arsenal of lines and tricks to use as opposed to DC 15 Intimidate check.

 

[CrimHead]

Skills are so last decade. Today RPGs are all about sitting behind a box and playing popamole, no matter what character you took. See Codex' most favorite best game evars this year.

Skyway makes the same post in every fucking thread

 

[Raghar]

See Codex' most favorite best game evars this year.

Do you mean DF?

 

[entertainer]

He means ass deffect 2

 

[Jim Profit]

If it's a fantasy game. You always pick magic, even if it's just magewarrior...

And you never pick bows. I don't know why it is in every fantasy game, they get stingy with good stats for bows. It's not like magic isn't a spamfest of ranged rape. Weapons are much more deserving of more damage output because

A: They don't rely on a mana source
B: They cost money (even more money if they need to be maintained like in Diablo 2)
C: They'll never quite amount to the area effect mages can deal.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Solution: Give bows the ability to backstab / sneak attack enemies from afar. Possibly also a chance that you won't be found after sending an arrow or two, giving you the chance to pick off a few mooks before being discovered.

 

[DraQ]

And you never pick bows. I don't know why it is in every fantasy game, they get stingy with good stats for bows.

Newtard detected.

It's not like magic isn't a spamfest of ranged rape.

Newtard detected.

Weapons are much more deserving of more damage output because

B: They cost money (even more money if they need to be maintained like in Diablo 2)

Newtard detected.

C: They'll never quite amount to the area effect mages can deal.

Ever heard of something like casting delay? Also, newtard detected.

The Hivemind is disgusted with your vile presence. GTFO.

 

[Piety]

angry angry

What's wrong with those observations about the frequent uselessness of bows? Rang true to me.

 

[Phelot]

In regards to social skills...

I would like to see social skills abandoned for the ability to build your character's personality at character creation. So instead of having a character with both intimidation and persuasion skills you would define your personality by choosing along a two point spectrum of polar opposites. Then in game your dialogue is defined based on your personality. This would stop players from power gaming and keep characters in character. For example:

Persuasive/Sly - Hotheaded/intimidating

An intimidating personality will get options for... well intimidating a character or countering an intimidation check on your OWN character, but they may also force you into combat if they are insulted by an NPC were a Persuasive/Sly personality may get intimidated into doing something they'd rather not, but will be able to get more people to willingly go along with their own plans or while the intimidating personality got into a fight, the persuasive personality defuses the encounter.

 

[DraQ]

angry angry

What's wrong with those observations about the frequent uselessness of bows? Rang true to me.

That before the new, MMOified shit bows were often freakishly potent due to not being weaker than melee weapons, but having much longer range?
You don't need to play any obscure, ancient titles to know that either - in BG saga ranged weapons won most battles, in Wizardry a well developed ranger with a good bow or a gadgeteer (ok, omnigun instead of bow) could deal shocking amount of damage, kills and disablement before the enemy closed in, even in Morrowind bows were more than quite capable of long range rape.

Second, in IE games, Wizardry, or even Morrowind (again) magic wasn't just AOE damage spam. Spells often took time to cast, they could also be cast limited amount of times per day or relied on limited mana pool. They often involved status effects rather than damage, and didn't necessarily have to be AoE, as frighteningly potent single target spells also existed.

Similarly, purchasing spells, be it directly, or in the form of scrolls/spellbooks is often costly (point B).

From these I can derive with decent accuracy that JP's idea of and experience with RPGs is mostly limited to the likes of Oblivion and Diablo 2.

From another thread:

I don't know many games with class based system, but I'll tell you the ones I've played...


DIABLO 2:
(...)

TEAM FORTRESS 2:
(...)

What a fucking surprise.

 

[oneself]

Solution: Give bows the ability to backstab / sneak attack enemies from afar. Possibly also a chance that you won't be found after sending an arrow or two, giving you the chance to pick off a few mooks before being discovered.

Always wondered why there isn't a sneak attack modifier of some kind for bows.

IMO bows should have large damage range, low critqal threat range while having a high crit modifier.

something like 1d8 crital threat range 20, x4

EDIT:

Pardon my French

 

[Xor]

Jim Profit was banned from /tg/ a while back for being an idiot. It's probably the same guy. When you're getting banned from 4chan for being an idiot, that should tell you something.