Skyrim: 30 hrs down the drain (Imperial vs Stormcloak spoila

[DraQ]

this isn't New Vegas gais, don't kid yourself.

Yeah, I bet Skyrim's factions reach nowhere near the depths of ambiguity explored by NV ones.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Because the factions actually have such well developed politics and goals in NV, while being properly diverse, it's actually probably easier for most people to figure out who they support. Skyrim's factions by comparison are very ambiguous, due to the fact that there really isn't anything going on between them. Things that sound interesting, like the text in the dossier, pretty much amount to nothing.

 

[Zombra]

Skyrim politics are fun if you read the lore and then let 90% of what's going on occur in your head instead of looking for it in the game.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

That's a recurring theme with TES, given the immense setting.

nephew: "So this Oblivion plane is basically hell, right?" *ruffles through a burnt corpse*

Me: "Yes, but there are some Oblivion planes that don't look like hell"

him: "A hell that doesn't look like hell?" *raises eyebrow*

me: "No, I mean, this plane looks like hell because the boss is a bad guy. Other planes look nicer, even though they are also called Oblivion planes"

him: "Nice. Can I enter these places?"

me: "...No. All the planes in the game look like hell."

him: "Oh." *laughs*

Sometimes I forget that TES' lore often has nothing to do with the damn games.

 

[Luzur]

That's a recurring theme with TES, given the immense setting.

Well, there is that plane that Camoran guy hides in the oblibon game.

 

[Luzur]

LOL skyrim contains alot of hidden easter eggs:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Easter_Eggs

this one is kinda odd though:

Swedish Metal

• During the quest Darkness Returns, you can recover Nystrom's journal, detailing a plot by two individuals to try and infiltrate the dungeon and its priests. The two are Nystrom and Anders, a reference to Anders Nystrom, guitarist and songwriter from Swedish metal bandKatatonia.
  • The unknown phrases in the last paragraph ("He also mumbled some nonsensical phrases like 'night is the new day' and how he was the 'ghost of the sun.' I have no idea what these cryptic sentiments mean, but hopefully during tomorrow's ritual, Anders and I will put everything we've learned to the test.") are references to multiple Katatonia albums and songs—the most obvious being the album Night is the New Day and the song "Ghost of the Sun" from the album Viva Emptiness.
  • When completing this quest, you will jump into a hole. In the hole is a skeleton containing Anders's message.

they have Swedes on the dev team?

 

[DraQ]

Because the factions actually have such well developed politics and goals in NV, while being properly diverse, it's actually probably easier for most people to figure out who they support. Skyrim's factions by comparison are very ambiguous, due to the fact that there really isn't anything going on between them. Things that sound interesting, like the text in the dossier, pretty much amount to nothing.

If Bethesda ever came up with something like NV's Caesar's Legion, the Codex would be deriding them for at least next 10 years for somehow managing to find a new low in designing retarded, one-dimensional villains.

 

[Perkel]

If Bethesda ever came up with something like NV's Caesar's Legion, the Codex would be deriding them for at least next 10 years for somehow managing to find a new low in designing retarded, one-dimensional villains.

In fantasy setting it would be hard to make them right.

Post apo setting is different thing though. Whole point of Ceasar Legion is strength in numbers and only through power people will be able to prosper.
NCR does that to but they at least have facade of diplomacy.

Though whole roman spin is stupid imo but that is fallout post F1 for you

 

[DraQ]

In fantasy setting it would be hard to make them right.

Post apo setting is different thing though. Whole point of Ceasar Legion is strength in numbers and only through power people will be able to prosper.
NCR does that to but they at least have facade of diplomacy.

Except Legion neglects what actually has ever brought people actual power and prosperity, in addition to being general all-around assholes.

Though whole roman spin is stupid imo but that is fallout post F1 for you

Well, yeah, but when your defence of something starts with "ok, but the whole setting is stupid", you know it's not going to go well.

TBH I don't consider the whole spin and general assholery that jarring but it gives one no leg to stand on when criticizing Skyrim's civil war factions. Yeah, the implementation may suck, as usual, but it's still the one time post-OB Beth manages to pump out something that isn't trite and actually presents a conflict with some depth to it a part of the 'Dex whines.

And no, it being easier to figure out who you support doesn't imply depth. It implies the opposite. Just it being easier to figure optimal tactics doesn't imply interesting combat system or encounter design, but usually the opposite.

 

[Perkel]

Except Legion neglects what actually has ever brought people actual power and prosperity, in addition to being general all-around assholes.

You mean Legion isn't what we call prosperity ? They menaged to create force that even NCR biggest in Fallout lore can't tackle just like that and by what people say in FNV Legion is growing.

Prosperity doesn't have anything to do with code of ethics.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

If Bethesda ever came up with something like NV's Caesar's Legion, the Codex would be deriding them for at least next 10 years for somehow managing to find a new low in designing retarded, one-dimensional villains.

No they wouldn't, Bethesda has ONLY ever done one-dimensional villains, most on the dex would be pleasantly surprised to see they actually took the risk of investing into a real(Read: Diverse) branching narrative. But it will never happen, I doubt they could justify it financially, so they'll stick to cut and paste blank factions to save time. And hey, if they're lucky people will see the fact that the factions are underdeveloped with no diversity as evidence of their sheer depth. Anyhow I'd much rather a legion like faction, than the watered down, sanitized, banal-shit-boring version of the roman legion we have in Skyrim. Only Beth can manage to take already interesting factions like Viking and Romans, put them into a fantasy setting, and somehow make them feel way more mundane than real life.

I hope we get even less defined politics and goals in our future factions, with more identical questlines, and of course if anyone complains just say they should read up on the lore! You can't expect all of this inside of the game, that'd be risky.
Can't wait for the Elder scrolls 6 Red vs Blue war, think of how ambiguous the factions will be! Heck you'd be hard pressed to find a single defining feature.

 

[DraQ]

No they wouldn't, Bethesda has ONLY ever done one-dimensional villains

Stopped reading here.
You, my friend, are retarded.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

No one who has ever written something like that as a reply has ever had anything worthwhile to say anyway, probable that that's why they say it to begin with.

Even so, that was a mistake on my part, originally I had specifically referenced the Beth games I've played. Which featured nazi elves who want to destroy the world, evil demons that want to destroy the world, and evil power armor nazis that want to destroy the majority of the people in the world. I've never played their earlier games to judge, I just cut out the examples because the post was too long.
Better?

 

[DraQ]

No one who has ever written something like that as a reply has ever had anything worthwhile to say anyway, probable that that's why they say it to begin with.

Even so, that was a mistake on my part, originally I had specifically referenced the Beth games I've played. Which featured nazi elves who want to destroy the world, evil demons that want to destroy the world, and evil power armor nazis that want to destroy the majority of the people in the world. I've never played their earlier games to judge, I just cut out the examples because the post was too long.
Better?

So, to recap, you've only played a distasteful rape of Fallout, a distasteful rape of Bethesda's own TES, and partial recovery from the latter, yet you make absolute statements about everything Bethesda ever made, including stuff made before dramatic changes in staff and creative vision.

And then you wonder why someone would consider serious reply to your tripe a waste of time.

 

[Lhynn]

You are such a fanboi DraQ

They werent villains, they simply acted in a way that allowed them to survive the messed up world that fallout is. Shit, if beth had written the legion then yeah, i could see them as mustache twirling villains kinda like the thalmor are, but nope, they are simply a fucked up gang that got big because they acted in a way that allowed them to do so.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

So, to recap, you've only played a distasteful rape of Fallout, a distasteful rape of Bethesda's own TES, and partial recovery from the latter, yet you make absolute statements about everything Bethesda ever made, including stuff made before dramatic changes in staff and creative vision.

And then you wonder why someone would consider serious reply to your tripe a waste of time.

Spoiler

I'm not wondering why you aren't replying, I've already come to my own conclusions on why you aren't posting what I'm sure would have been a brilliant rebuttal. It's actually way less retarded and petty than the reason you've actually given me. I referred to modern beth as it's own beast, disregarding the older titles that aren't remotely relevant to the discussion, an admitted mistake, but yes, totally justifiable butthurt on your part. Not like these type of sweeping generalities aren't always used when referring to Beth or Bioware.