Skyrim "mage's guild" quest is shitty ass

[Heresiarch]

It seems so far most of the topics are praising Skyrim. Let us rant a bit now.

Shit fucking shit, I've just finished the college of Winterhold quest line, which is supposed to be the mage's guild quest line of Skyrim.

Shit, shit, shit. The whole quest line is just ridiculously short. How short? So short it makes Oblivion's mage guild quest line look EPIC. So short it's feeling like watching a single episode of Harry Porter movie. So short that all the quests can be made into one big quest with several steps to finish.

The quests are fun, a specific dungeon is very well designed, and the beginning of the quest line really shows promise. On a whole look the quest line is actually pretty interesting. And the whole quest, even after the conclusion, smells heavily of DLC potential. But damn, if you're expecting the college to be a mage faction with many fun quests to do to improve your rank slowly, you will be sorely disappointed.

Also, Winterhold (along with the college) is just so fucking boring and pathetic as a town. I actually feel sorry for the Jarl there, sitting in his longhouse taking care of his "town" which has one small shop, one inn, and two houses. He should probably abandon the town and get over with it. The town is even more pathetic than most villages!

The college is even more shit. The teachers do nothing but sit in their room to eat and drink. The spells they can teach are no better than a random court mage. The students spend most of their time sitting in their room doing nothing. The Hall of Element and the big library, which are supposed to be the main studying places, and they indeed have pretty impressing area designs, are often empty. And to make things even worse, all the indoor areas of the college have no music. This is probably the most boring faction I've even seen in all TES.

Let's rant a bit further. It seems the cities in Skyrim are even worse than Oblivion (gasp!). They are all so tiny. I think Morrowind has at least double the buildings and NPC number in each city compared to Skyrim. Whiterun make Flotsam of Twitcher2 look like modern New York city. And once again, what's the fucking point of preserving Winterhold? It's even worse than a Stalker camp!

Shit, how is it possible, that while technology is improving, and Bethsoft has Radiant AI and shit, but still manage to make each game even more lifeless than the previous one? In Daggerfall their only trick is to have thousands of 2d sprites walking around aimlessly, and in Morrowind even none of the NPC move at all! But they feel so immersive!

 

[octavius]

Shitty ass, eh? Not clean as an elven arse?

 

[Aldebaran]

From what I have heard, to progress in the fighters guild, you need to

Spoiler

become a werewolf,

and to progress in the thieves guild, you need to

Spoiler

agree to become a servant of nocturnal. In this arrangement, your soul will be bound to her temple after death as one of its defenders for all time.

You have no option to progress any further without accepting these terms. There isn't even a dialogue option to say no.

The Thieves guild one seems especially arbitrary as, from what I can tell, there is no clear reason on why you have to undergo the process to beat the big bad guy. You can save the world from dragons, but not kill a rogue thief I guess.

It is possible that I have not been informed of some important details, but it seems that the majority of guilds have their own fair share of bad design.

 

[Eyeball]

I quite liked the mage guild myself, but they did kind of miss the potential here. Could have been far more intrigue between rivaling mage factions and the "town is invaded by what-the-fuck-are-these" event was pretty stupid, especially considering they were nigh-on unkillable with magic and your immortal companions pretty much took care of them in the first place.

Was also pretty short - I'd been doing a lot of exploring around the northeast of Skyrim at the time and was able to fast-travel my way to most of the quest objectives unhindered. The biggest standout was probably the two bossfights in the last dungeon, the last of which kicked my ass repeatedly with lightning blasts.

I LOVE the return of the Dwemer, by the way - well done steampunk in their holds, and Blackreach is as visually impressive an area as you could ever find in Morrowind.

In my opinion, the best part about the mage college was venturing north from it across the ice to find the insane Imperial's cave. His quest is cool, and the reward for doing it is probably the best I've found in the game so far.

Also, if you haven't already, make sure to explore the midden of the college. At least one unmarked quest there with some pretty cool visuals.

 

[Heresiarch]

In my opinion, the best part about the mage college was venturing north from it across the ice to find the insane Imperial's cave. His quest is cool, and the reward for doing it is probably the best I've found in the game so far.

Also, if you haven't already, make sure to explore the midden of the college. At least one unmarked quest there with some pretty cool visuals.

Where is that cave? Do you need to discover it by pure luck, or there is a quest which will lead you there?

 

[WhiteGamer]

In my opinion, the best part about the mage college was venturing north from it across the ice to find the insane Imperial's cave. His quest is cool, and the reward for doing it is probably the best I've found in the game so far.

Also, if you haven't already, make sure to explore the midden of the college. At least one unmarked quest there with some pretty cool visuals.

Where is that cave? Do you need to discover it by pure luck, or there is a quest which will lead you there?

The main quest will take you to the insane imperial mage. He gives you 2 Dwemer items and a quest and it ties up with acquiring an Elder Scroll.

 

[turul]

wait until you figure out, that the mages and their skills are broken. If somebody is fanatic enough to play this game that far. According to some folks over beth forums, the destruction magic doesn't improve after a certain level, unlike the warrior classes with several updates and a continuous scaling up of sword skill.

Basically you could be level 50 mage with destruction magic stuck at a certain limited level of destrucion against (let's say 35) level 50 creatures.
It's like being a level 50 swordsman, with an iron sword and you had only 2 or 3 upgrade to your swordsman skills.



Here is a mod, already fixing, what I'm talking about.
http://skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=611

 

[fizzelopeguss]

are the psijics like time lords or something?

 

[RRRrrr]

Here is a mod, already fixing, what I'm talking about.
http://skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=611

Has anyone tested the mod? I don't want becoming too overpowered later on.

 

[The Wizard]

if you play on expert or master there will be nothing overpowered about it. considering "fighters" and "rogues" can dish out hundreds o even thousands of damage points per swing at lvl~40 or sooner.

i love it how you again only need to use spells a grand total of maybe 3 times in the whole questline. jesus fuck is this retarded.

and to add insult to injury those psjjj assholes took away my shiny. if you're already at it might as well steal my useless staff, too. worthless pricks.

 

[baronjohn]

They have some fun side quests. Talk to the people in the college.

 

[Satan]

Indeed i'm surprised that they cannot make larger cities. I mean fucking Balmora had more buildings that the largest oblivion town's area... yet they seem to ignore that they fuck up the engine so much, because it's basically the same since morrowind.

 

[made]

"fighters" and "rogues" can dish out hundreds o even thousands of damage points per swing at lvl~40 or sooner.

How can you even tell? Afair the game the game doesn't display any damage or hp numbers whatsoever.

 

[abnaxus]

wait until you figure out, that the mages and their skills are broken. If somebody is fanatic enough to play this game that far. According to some folks over beth forums, the destruction magic doesn't improve after a certain level, unlike the warrior classes with several updates and a continuous scaling up of sword skill.

Basically you could be level 50 mage with destruction magic stuck at a certain limited level of destrucion against (let's say 35) level 50 creatures.
It's like being a level 50 swordsman, with an iron sword and you had only 2 or 3 upgrade to your swordsman skills.



Here is a mod, already fixing, what I'm talking about.
http://skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=611

That's all meaningless, since with Enchantment! you can cast all Destruction spells with 0 mana cost, meaning you can spam everything to death easily.

 

[Monocause]

That's all meaningless, since with Enchantment! you can cast all Destruction spells with 0 mana cost, meaning you can spam everything to death easily.

Did you play the game? The last time enchantment worked like that was in Morrowind. In Skyrim you can't make machine guns anymore.

 

[Luzur]

Indeed i'm surprised that they cannot make larger cities. I mean fucking Balmora had more buildings that the largest oblivion town's area... yet they seem to ignore that they fuck up the engine so much, because it's basically the same since morrowind.

well, atleast the lore on Skyrim cities wasnt at the same level as the Imperial City & Cyrodiil, it saved Bethesda from alot of lore flak, since nobody really knew what the province and its cities looked like, so they could get away with making them as they wanted and not repeat the whole "Cyrodiil is a jungle with a huge roman capitol spanning several islands" debacle.

but yeah they kinda failed as usual with the towns, but i guess they scaled them down due to console power, like with Oblivion.

but i do hope someone mods in more houses and NPC's, even if they are just named "Adventurer" or "Peasant"

 

[abnaxus]

That's all meaningless, since with Enchantment! you can cast all Destruction spells with 0 mana cost, meaning you can spam everything to death easily.

Did you play the game? The last time enchantment worked like that was in Morrowind. In Skyrim you can't make machine guns anymore.

With 100 enchantment you can add "-25% destruction mana cost" enchantments.

There's even rings to be found that give a natural -20% to mana cost of any spell school.

 

[Heresiarch]

That's all meaningless, since with Enchantment! you can cast all Destruction spells with 0 mana cost, meaning you can spam everything to death easily.

Did you play the game? The last time enchantment worked like that was in Morrowind. In Skyrim you can't make machine guns anymore.

What abnaxus means is with four enchanted equipments reducing a single selected school's casting cost by 25% with each equipment, you can cast that school's spell with zero cost. So you can effectively machinegun fireballs after fireballs.

After a brief checking on that mod I think the mod sucks. By modifying the ingame spells it can imbalance the game before say level 35. What it should do is either include spell making or give spells that can be learned only with a higher level or 100 destruction skill. However it can imbalance the game even more because the -100% spell cost exists.

 

[attackfighter]

The original destruction perks aren't balanced to begin with. They just picked 'nice' numbers like 25 and 50%. If it were truly balanced the numbers probably wouldn't be multiples of 5

Anyways, early game you're only getting a -5% nerf per damage perk, so it's not like it adds up to much. It's only during the late game that this mod will really have an impact and the vanilla late game forces destruction mages into abusing enchant as it is, so perhaps this buff will take away the need for such abuse.

 

[Black Cat]

Pure Mages are perfectly viable, even if not abusing Enchanting, by focusing on Conjuration and Illusion instead, particularly on the highest difficulties, as the monsters are pretty tough. Just leave Destruction as backup and be done with it, not every Mage needs to be a humanoid artillery piece.

There are some places where as a pure mage you will not be able to survive, even with two summons and a companion, without a healthy use of Illusion, as small groups of anything above bandits will cut through your suposedly overpowered companions in a blink, and archers will be one shotting you.

Also, Winterhold (along with the college) is just so fucking boring and pathetic as a town. I actually feel sorry for the Jarl there, sitting in his longhouse taking care of his "town" which has one small shop, one inn, and two houses. He should probably abandon the town and get over with it. The town is even more pathetic than most villages!

That's true, and was kind of a huge disapointment after riding all the way up there and getting my companion killed along the way. Though at least they did kind of recognize how pathetic it was, and how pathetic the Jarl was, and made it part of the place's history. Flimsy and kind of weak, but amusing when it comes to the Jarl mostly living by himself and ruling a destroyed city because he can't let go.

 

[abnaxus]

It makes sense for Winterhold to be a shitty backwater since that place holds bad memories for the Nords (Saarthal being close by).

And shitty backwaters are exactly were mages belong in Skyrim.

 

[Drakron]

It makes sense for Winterhold to be a shitty backwater since that place holds bad memories for the Nords (Saarthal being close by).

Not really, it was once the Capital of Skyrim and during the Great Collapse most of the city fallen into the sea.

Also the whole province being a dump is not that against lore as "A Pocket Guide to The Empire, First Edition" only mentions as place of note Haafingar (Solitude) and Windhelm and neither by them being large population centers (Solitude for the Collage and Windhelm because of the Palace of the Kings and being the only sizable city in the entire hold), its was a rural place even back with Septim was Emperor.

 

[Stabwound]

I also thought that the mage college quest line was rather disappointing. Maybe it's just me, but I felt that the ending was rather abrupt, and it almost felt like it was lopped off there artificially. The final dungeon in the quest line was pretty nice, if not a bit too long, though. The "boss" in the dungeon was a huge fucking pain, too. I could only kill him by cheesing it up - warding and firebolting, then running away to recharge magicka.

I guess it's something that will be expanded on with mods. :/

That linked mod seems rather arbitrary. Destruction clearly needs some kind of tweaking, but I don't know if just increasing all of the values is it. I'd prefer equipment enchantments with +damage to spells, for one thing.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

i love it how you again only need to use spells a grand total of maybe 3 times in the whole questline. jesus fuck is this retarded.

I only cast one spell during the whole thing: the ward spell for that first lesson. Aside from using the staff for the gimmick end boss the mages guild questline was virtually indistinguishable from the companions quests/combat quests:

-Go through an excessively long generic draugr/dwarven dungeon.
-Kill the overpowered draugr at the end.
-Get a shortcut back to the exit, rince& repeat.

I don't see how these dungeons are anything but dull, once you've seen a draugr tomb or dwarven ruin you've seem them all. Quests could be pulled straight out of an mmorpg.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

The guild questlines have easily been the worst part of the game so far. Mages were particularly bad, the whole thing just made no fucking sense and was bland as hell. Labyrinthian was... was the name a joke? It was a linear corridor, and was shorter than most of the dungeons I've been through so far. The lich at the end was easier than any other lich I've fought thus far, though given that I'm playing a battlemage, I tend to take the "use force push then rush them with dual swords" approach to fighting tough wizards. Did I miss a section or something? Was it meant to have a maze?

 

[Drakron]

These are just ramblings ...

Look, one of the complain I hear about Oblivion Mage Guild Quest was a warrior could do it because you only needed entry level spellcasting to pass the entry quests.

I remember Daggerfall Mages Guild quest that were random created and pretty much amounted to either guard the Guild Hall or go to some dungeon, the only thing that bars Rank Progress was skill requirements but that is a artificial limit that really does not make sense.

I say Skyrim Collage quest are fine, the issue comes from what Stabwound said were its speeded along fast were Radiant Quest could have considering slow it down (granted they would end up being fetch quests for books and ingredients) as I dont think Spellcasting 101-201-301 necessary works but there is a problem were its just "First Lesson" -> "Field Trip" -> "Finding Books" that you cannot put a break on the narrative, only after those quests you can set a break.

Also I say Assassin and Thief quests are easy to make as its just steal or kill a specific target were Mage quests are always going to be hard to separate from the same basic design as Warrior quests without going into Spellcasting 101 that, like it or not, its nothing but a tutorial.