Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

SMAC 444 - AI patch updated [p]

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by kyrub, Feb 24, 2011.

  1. laclongquan Arcane

    laclongquan
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,867,682
    Location:
    Searching for my kidnapped sister
    Location, location LOCATION!

    Sing it!
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Shadenuat Arcane

    Shadenuat
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    9,150
    Location:
    Russia
    Man I suck at playing my favorite faction (Deirdre, standard map, Thinker). I blobbed and tried police state/green/knowledge. I ate morgan and then struggled with Santiago who was on same continent and rolled into my territory demanding doritos. Worm-rushing didn't work that well so I felt back on cheap eco terrorists (best gun naked infantry) and probes to remove perimeter defences. When I made Santiago surrender I got Miriam fanatics going through little piece of land between 2 continents trying to destroy me (yes she ate Yang again and now she was powerful as hell). We fought for many turns until she demanded truce and... and she instantly traded me all her best tech (plasma shards) for some of my outdated tech (???).
    I only managed to stop Miriam because of Command Nexus + Pholus Mutagen. Fungus roads are very stronk.
    Running Knowledge without Hunter-Seeker is so bad, Miriam once chewed through 3 of my probe teams and still stole my tech. Bitch.

    Meanwhile Lal basically became superpower, he ate Zak, and was waiting to backstab me. Game ended with me trying to figure out how not to die to both of them and then with bunch of corrupted saves.

    Gotta try again, but man that worm advantage just ain't cutting it even at midgame...
    Also fucking drones. I never had so many drones as when playing Deirdre. When I played Morgan my bases just were not that large, and with Santiago I could use 4 police units. I hate when I need to build recreational commons everywhere.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014
    ^ Top  
  3. Wizfall Arbiter

    Wizfall
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2012
    Messages:
    789
    I find the game much more difficult now.
    I always play with the same setting : iron man, random large map, few ocean and tech stagnation (with an ini edit to slow tech progress even more for a final tech progression total of 35% of normal)
    Before on transcendent level if my starting point is good i was usually able to win.
    Now i got my ass kicked if i don't start in a good spot and even if i do there are always one faction vastly more powerful than mine (and usually another of the same level).
     
    ^ Top  
  4. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,871,671
    Location:
    Belém do Pará

    Same here.
    So I wans't the only one to notice that this patch aparently drives tech progression through the roof due to the smarter AI having more reousrces to tech?

    Yeah I got my ass kicked twice, I once only won a war because I mind-controlled bribed gave new financial oportunities for gain employment to a University army advancing towards Morganite lands. Probes are awesome.

    BTW, AI can wantonly use probe teams now, I once lost with Hive to Believers because everytime I tried to accumulate a force to give battle in my cities, some probe team just mind-controlled the colony and took over all my units too. Since then having at least one probe team per city has been prioritary.
     
    ^ Top  
  5. Irenaeus Self-Ejected Patron Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual The Real Fanboy

    Self-Ejected
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,867,980
    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro, Cidade Desespero
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera
    This patch sounds just like what I was looking for. Time to install SMAC again and give this baby a try!
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • butthurt butthurt x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Shadenuat Arcane

    Shadenuat
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    9,150
    Location:
    Russia
    AI still can't use crawlers well. And spamming armored tractors gives you a lot of time because they add up to your military score.
    And yeah even with tech stagnation, even on a medium map, military campaign ends with high end weaponry, copters and hovertanks for me, always.

    Today I won a Deirdre game on Thinker. On turn 2 I meet Morgan and he instantly goes vendetta on me. So I ate him with worms. Then I quickly harassed Miriam off my island. Then I got pact with Zak and we were building stuff while Santiago was kicking Hive on another landmass. She killed Yang and became as strong as me, but she did not touch me until I got either air power or some space tech, after that she asked that as bribe, I denied, and a military campaign began. I captured some with marines, then raised small landbridge and unleashed mighty Gaian's industrial power on her, but only started to win when I built only commando units with upgrades.
    The bitch constantly was bribing my units and her own captured bases away from me. But I managed to make her surrender eventually.

    Then Miriam from little island showed back with jets and impact rovers :lol::lol: I made 2 armored transports and went all D day on her with elite infantry and rovers who just destroyed spartans. Crazy fanatic didn't last more than 5 turns.

    so tl;dr
    1. kill all AI opponents near your land while they are weak cause they don't protect their cities well
    2. instead combat units spam armored crawlers, harvest forests
    3. blob blob blob until there is only sea around you and no AI in sight
    3.???
    4. profit
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
    ^ Top  
  7. Wizfall Arbiter

    Wizfall
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2012
    Messages:
    789
    Finally beat the game (setting : iron man, random large map, few ocean and tech stagnation with an ini edit to slow tech progress even more) playing Morgan.
    So :
    1. start in a good spot (awesome is not required)
    2.blob like a retard, zero army. You should almost always secure enough land to develop.
    3.act like a coward and gave everything the others ask even if it hurts (you will catch on them latter...hopefully)
    4.help massively and early enough to be helpful any faction that begin to have a disadvantage by giving tech in order not to create a rival superpower faction
    5.spam borehole as much as you can with supply crawler units.
    6.prey everything work, that nobody attack you and not a truly superpower faction has been created meanwhile
    6.win by tech/monopoly

    Edit : tech progression is still way too fast toward the middle end (the last third of the game) despite my setting hugely lowering it. However decreasing it even more will make the 1/3 of the game way too slow (it's already borderline right now).
    Any way to change the rate of tech progression in order to slow it in the last third without making it a crawl at the beginning ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  8. Irenaeus Self-Ejected Patron Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual The Real Fanboy

    Self-Ejected
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,867,980
    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro, Cidade Desespero
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera
    Yeah, I'd like that too, but I fear it can't be done unless you increase the cost of later techs. No idea how to do it.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • butthurt butthurt x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. lemon-lime Educated

    lemon-lime
    Joined:
    May 13, 2015
    Messages:
    75
    Since a few months I've been playing with this patch. It made the game so much better. It forced me to play better, take more care. Thank you very much!

    But I noticed that I could catch mindworms as the Peacekeepers, even before I had even researched the Green economy setting. Is that normal or maybe a bug?
    I can't remember that happening before (except when playing as Gaians, of course.) With this patch it happend in two games, and in one of those my zero Planet rating Peacekeepers had a very high catch rate (6 out of 10, or so), even higher than I'm used to with Green Gaians.
    I understand that random stuff is random, but 6/10 smells buggy for a Planet value of zero.

    Also one little cosmetic thingie: The sound settings don't get recognized before a game is started/loaded, which makes the main menu annoyingly loud just after startup. Would it be possible to change that?
     
    ^ Top  
  10. Silva Arcane

    Silva
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,473
    Just started a SMAX game with latest Yitzi patch (3.4, which incorporates Scient, Kyrub and Pracx interface improvements). I'm still at the beginning of a Thinker campaign and I noticed the same as lemon-lime above: my scouts are capturing mind-worms with an easiness that mimics Deirdre in vanilla. Don't know if its correct or not, bit Id rather have vanilla behavior in this.

    Now, what difficulty level are these AI patches supposed to function better ? In my early game as the Angels I managed to take the point in the blob race and for a moment thought the AI was dumber. But then I realized thats not the case at all, and as soon as the borders were settled the AI rushed past me and now I'm among the worst factios in the graphs. I think the AI utilizes its resources toward research and infrastructure much better now. I'm even starting to think that Thinker is too tough for me, as Im not a min-maxer and like to have a more easier and relaxing game.
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    10,656
    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Yitzi's patch does not incorporate kyrub's. kyrub only did work on SMAC, and it didn't get ported to SMAX properly.

    The stuff about mind-worms is a bug, you should probably report it to Yitzi. Check your territory for Manifold Nexus, though - it adds +1 PLANET.

    kyrub's patch also has its own bugs, like the retooling penalty applying incorrectly, which we recently discovered in a PBEM.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  12. Silva Arcane

    Silva
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,473
    Nevill, I happen to have the Manifold Nexus inside my territory. Thanks.

    About Yitzi's patch:

    Well, the description says it uses Kyrub and Scient's patches. ;)

    Edit:
    Oh, and according to the change log, the bug you cited was also corrected:

     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
    ^ Top  
  13. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    10,656
    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    "building on Kyrub's AI enhancement" does not mean that it contains kyrub's patch.
    The general rule is - you want a (marginally?) better AI, you play SMAC with kyrub's. You want a somewhat bug-free experience and many moddable features, you play SMAX with Yitzi's.

    Since I prefer multiplayer and don't find AI challenging either way, I just do the latter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
    ^ Top  
  14. lemon-lime Educated

    lemon-lime
    Joined:
    May 13, 2015
    Messages:
    75
    Regarding the mindworm capturing bug: I believe, that I identified the reason for the strange behaviour. My hypothesis:

    Sometimes, when a new game is started the chosen faction's default social policies seem to not go into effect. Instead they seem to be whatever was last active in the last game.

    I noticed that, because sometimes, when I started a new game with the Spartans, I didn't get the 10% production cost penalty. The mineral rows on the building screen were still 10 instead of 11 wide. (IIRC once they were even much lower than 10. I must have played Hive/Planned/Wealth in the game before, or something similar.)
    I strongly suspect, that was the same bug, that triggered the strange mindworm capturing behaviour. (I had probably played as Gaians/Green in the game before I played the mindworm capturing Peacekeepers.)

    So far that's just random anecdotes, I haven't done any deliberate testing of my hypothesis, yet.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    10,656
    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Never heard of that one.

    Check the map size. Tiny and Small maps have 2 and 1 less minerals in a row, respectively. Meaning Spartans on a small map would get 10 minerals in a row and everyone else would get 9.

    Anyway, the faction starting bonuses are kept in a save file. Next time it happens, upload a save, and if there is indeed a bug perhaps Yitzi could have a look at it.
     
    ^ Top  
  16. Silva Arcane

    Silva
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,473
    On my side, I restarted my Data Angel campaign 4 times and that behaviour didnt repeat, which leads me to believe the cause was indeed the manifold nexus on my territory.
     
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)