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Sniper Build [with new feats]

Discussion in 'Underrail' started by toro, Jul 24, 2019.

  1. toro Arcane

    toro
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    I originally posted this in another thread but here it goes.

    These are the new feats added in Expedition DLC: Shooting Spree and Blindsiding.

    Originally I realized that I need AGI 5 for Sure Step. That feat is absolute must have because I prefer caltrops to traps.

    But I also wanted to reach the absolute maximum of 96 AP: Adrenaline + Blitz + Blitz : Maximum Action Points specialization. I don't know how exactly but I will try to use it somehow because some Sniper weapons require 32 AP per shot.

    I don't want to be an absolute glass cannon therefore I distributed some points into DEX, STR and INT for no penalties.

    [​IMG]
    http://underrail.info.tm/build/?FAUECgQPAwRubgAAAG5ubm4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAG4AbmEBJjE1An5HwoUzSyTfvw

    Anyway, this might be the most optimized sniper build I could produce for maximum sniper damage because it has the highest possible Guns skill and max Stealth and Evasion skills.

    The only downside is that I have to give up on crafting and dodge.

    What do you think? Am I missing any must have feats for a Sniper build?
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
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  2. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    Why 110 throwing, just for caltrops?
     
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  3. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Also grenades.

    This is a similar build with Dex 6 for Grenadier (but that's more like a luxury feat).

    [​IMG]

    However CON 3 makes me shiver.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
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  4. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Good question.

    I suppose I don't need Throwing over 80 which means that I have 30 skill points to put in something but Idk what would be a good place.
     
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  5. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Nice build, but the lack of crafting limits its max damage. Why? Two words, smart modules, which are neither present on unique sniper rifles nor on those you can find or buy, at least that was the case before the expansion. You can easily stack around 80% more damage and I sincerely doubt maxing stealth with 10 Agi can compensate for that.
    Also what is up with taking PSI Empathy on a non-PSI build and limiting it to level 20? You should consider Shooting Spree feat for a Sniper as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
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  6. toro Arcane

    toro
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    I did not take PSI Empathy. Check again.
    I limited to lvl 20 because this is the base of the build. Everything else is more topping.
    Shooting Spree is taken at lvl 10.
    Gun Nut requires INT 7 and that's a waste of 3 stat points. Too much.
    There are Sniper rifles with Smart modules in the game. I'm sure of that.
    I can still craft Sniper rifles because at some point I can divert skills points to Mechanics and Electronics.

    Bottom line: "You can easily stack around 80% more damage and I sincerely doubt maxing stealth with 10 Agi can compensate for that." Well, this is what I want to find out :)
    I do know that high Stealth will give me almost 50% chance to critical with Ambush. Add 13% from Sniper Rifle + 7% from Reckless + 20% from googles means 90% chance to critical each shoot.
    And if I manage to reach 96 APs then it means that I will have 3 sniper attacks with 90% critical chance in the first round of combat. If this is not sexy then I don't know what it is :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
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  7. Spark Mandriller Scholar

    Spark Mandriller
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    I don't know if Expedition changed anything, but they were crafting only in the original game at least. I really doubt Styg would have changed that either. He likes crafting a lot.
     
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  8. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Then I apologize to Sykar

    To be honest this was the only thing I was not completely sure about.

    Thanks.
     
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  9. toro Arcane

    toro
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    This is starting to look good.

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I just leveled up to lvl 6. I don't have a Sniper rifle atm but the pistol is already doing 80 crits on Rathounds (most of them die in 1 shot).

    The build is almost perfect until now. The only question mark is Opportunist but I will see how that evolves in the future.

     
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  10. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Yeah as a fellow Sniper lover I can confirm that it takes some luck to find rifle parts. Usually you get your first sniper rifle when you arrive in Junkyard.
     
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  11. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    pickpocket for some early oddities?
     
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  12. toro Arcane

    toro
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    I'm level 10 with one Oddity left until next level.

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Overall I've steamrolled Depot A and the build is almost perfect until now: I have max damage, evasion and stealth possible at this level (or very close the maximum possible)


    The big question is: Should I continue investing into Throwing, Persuasion and Mercantile?

    60 Persuasion is like the sweat spot and I don't know if I need more. I know about a skill check at 90 but is it worth it?
     
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  13. toro Arcane

    toro
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    For whomever is interested in Mercantile checks (counts x Mercantile level):

    2 x 20
    2 x 25
    2 x 30
    4 x 35 ----> threshold (feat: Salesman)
    4 x 40
    4 x 45
    7 x 50 ----> threshold (feat: Major Supplier)
    2 x 55
    3 x 60
    2 x 65
    1 x 70
    3 x 75
    1 x 80
    2 x 85
    4 x 90 ----> last threshold (gain access to second tier of special merchandise for almost all traders)
    1 x 95
    2 x 100
    1 x 105
    110 -----> seems to be skill cap
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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  14. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Just a heads up, you CANNOT lower the price for Hercules with a mere 45 skill level. Iirc I needed 70 to get Arda to lower the price to 400. I am surprised that this has not been rectified yet.
     
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  15. MediantSamuel Prophet Patron

    MediantSamuel
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Great list. Do you have this for persuasion and intimidate, too?
     
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  16. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Nope. I did not find a list will all Persuasion checks.

    Edit: Here is a list for Intelligence:

    INT 5 Guns 25 High-Technicalities - Increases damage done by energy pistols by 8% for each intelligence point above 5.
    INT 5 Melee 5 Expose Weakness - You can perform a special melee attack that deals normal damage and reduces target's mechanical resistance and threshold by 50% if it lands for 2 turns.
    INT 5 DEX 6 Melee 40 Cheap Shots - Increases critical damage bonus of your melee attacks by 50% and gives your melee attacks 15% chance to incapacitate the target for 1 turn.
    INT 5 WIL 7 Any Psi skill 50 Meditation - Maximum psi points increased by 25.

    INT 6 Mechanics 15 Armor Sloping - Reduces the armor penalty originating from metal plates when crafting armor by 35% (multiplicative).
    INT 6 Mechanics 25 Weaponsmith - Non-fist melee weapons that you create have 5% higher critical hit chance.
    INT 6 Tailoring 35 Ballistics - Carrier vests give additional 3 mechanical damage threshold when used in crafting.
    INT 6 Crossbows 50 Special Tactics - Grants you an ability that when activated will remove the action point cost of your next special bolt attack. This ability can only be activated while out of combat.

    INT 7 Tailoring 15 Clothier - The quality of fabrics counts as if 20% higher in all your crafts.
    INT 7 Tailoring 15 Skinner - The quality of leathers counts as if 20% higher in all your crafts.
    INT 7 Mechanics 15 Gun Nut - Increases the upper damage range of all firearms you create by 15%.
    INT 7 Electronics 15 Power Management - Electronic devices you create have 35% greater energy capacity.
    INT 7 Electronics or Mechanics 20 - Disassemble
    INT 7 Mechanics 30 Bowyer - Crossbows that you craft have their critical damage bonus increased by 35%. (additive)
    INT 7 Biology 35 Neurology - Psi headbands you create also provide additional 15 maximum psi points.
    INT 7 Electronics 35 Practical Physicist - Critical damage bonus of energy weapons you create is increased by 25% (additive).
    INT 7 Chemistry 40 Mad Chemist - On-hit effects of chemical pistols you create are twice as strong.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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  17. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Best AP bonus/cost
    Adrenaline Shot gives: 20 x 3 = 60 AP for 3 rounds.
    There are no stat requirements and the cost for Adrenaline is 300 (very cheap) which is almost free.

    Second Best AP bonus/cost

    Psycho-temporal Contraction gives the best AP bonus: 15 x 2 = 30 AP in 2 rounds.
    Combined with Psycho-temporal Acceleration it gives: 20 x 3 = 60 AP in 3 rounds.
    There are no stat requirements (WILL 3 is enough) but you will need 55 Temporal skill points.
    Except -25% health from PSI pill, there are no additional costs because the PSI points are mostly free mana.

    Worst AP bonus/cost
    AGI 10. Blitz gives 20 AP for round 1.
    AGI 13. Expert Sprint gives 10 AP for 2 rounds.
    Lvl 25+. AGI 10. Blitz + Blitz specialization give 26 APs for round 1.
    Lvl 25+. AGI 13. Blitz + Blitz specialization + Expert Sprint give 36 APs for round 1 and 10 APs for round 2.

    This means that the maximum AP for one round is: 50 (base) + 20 (Adrenaline) + 22 (Psychotemporal Contraction/Acceleration/Specialization) + 26 (Blitz/Blitz specialization) + 10 (Expert Sprint) = 128 APs for the first round.

    However:
    Adrenaline + Blitz gives an user 90 APs for round 1, 70s AP for round 2 and 70s AP for round 3 for a total of 230 APs.
    Adrenaline + Blitz + Expert Sprint gives an user 100 APs for round 1, 80 APs for round 2 and 70 APs for round 3 for a total of 250 APs.
    Adrenaline + Psycho-temporal Contraction/Acceleration gives an user 90 APs for 3 rounds for a total of 270 APs.
    Adrenaline + Psycho-temporal Contraction/Acceleration + Blitz gives an user 110 APs for round 1, 90 APs for round 2 and 90 APs for round 3 for a total of 290 APs.
    Adrenaline + Psycho-temporal Contraction/Acceleration + Blitz + Expert Sprint gives an user 120 APs for round 1, 100 APs for round 2 and 90 APs for round 3 for a total of 310 APs.

    Please tell me if my calculations are wrong because what I see is that Adrenaline + Psycho-temporal Contraction/Acceleration hits the sweet spot.

    It also means that my super duper Sniper build is not-optimized.

    :despair:
     
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  18. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    The highest checks are effective 110 persuade and 100 intimidate, allegedly even with the expansion.

    Why not put the DEX (and CON, but that's a separate matter) point to INT then? DEX just governs two skills, if you add crafting INT would aid with more.
     
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  19. toro Arcane

    toro
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    I'm working on it :)
     
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  20. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Ambush might be the most tactical and powerful no-Psi feat in the game.

    Some sniper rifles have a critical chance of 13% and Recklessness give another 7%.

    That means that at level 20:
    AGI 5 119 *0.3 = 35.7 + 20 + 13 + 7 = 75.7%
    AGI 6 128 *0.3 = 38.4 + 20 + 13 + 7 = 78.4%
    AGI 7 138 *0.3 = 41.4 + 20 + 13 + 7 = 81.4%
    AGI 8 147 *0.3 = 44.1 + 20 + 13 + 7 = 84.1%
    AGI 9 156 *0.3 = 46.8 + 20 + 13 + 7 = 86.8%
    AGI 10 166 *0.3 = 49.8 + 20 + 13 +7 = 89.8%

    In other words 50 points of stealth are needed to increase critical chance with 10%.

    Ninja Tabi Boots + Rathound Regalia easily give 50 Stealth points therefore even 100% critical chance is possible.
     
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  21. HeatEXTEND Cipher Patron

    HeatEXTEND
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    :slamdunkride:
    it's pretty great ye
     
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  22. toro Arcane

    toro
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    So, my final Sniper build is here :)

    I decided to go for a crafting main Sniper/support PSI focusing mostly on the synergy between Ambush and Grenadier.

    [​IMG]

    http://underrail.info.tm/build/?FAUGBAMPBAhuIwAAAABuUFoAAG5uAAAAAAAAN24ARisBMVMWAsKHfjPChUvfvw

    STR to 5 in order to be able to use most Sniper rifles (only Black Arrow requires 6 STR but that's in Deep Caverns).
    DEX 6 for Grenadier. 30 Throwing is required for Grenadier.
    AGI 4 for no Stealth penalties.
    CON 3 because this is the only one I can ignore.
    PER 10 for max damage. The only stat to be upgraded.
    WIL 4 for no Temporal Manipulation penalties. 45 Temporal Manipulation is needed for Acceleration feat however 55 skill points are required by Psycho-temporal Contraction. Yeah, I'm going for 20 AP bonus + 3 rounds.
    INT 8 for skills points sweet spot. Each point of Intelligence makes a difference of 30 skill points for this particular build.

    Some other ideas:
    I cannot go with WILL 3 because that means Psycho-Temporal Contraction will be delayed past lvl 8.
    DEX 4, AGI 6, INT 8 - It would allow me to take Sure Steps or Spring but Grenadier is much more valuable on long term.
    DEX 3, AGI 7, INT 8 - It would allow me to take Interloper but do I really want that !?
    DEX 4, AGI 4, INT 10 - It means 60 more skill points in Hacking, Mechanics, Electronics and Mercantile however no access to Grenadier, Sure Steps or Sprint.

    I don't think I will have an easy time with this build in the Old Junkyard but I'm pretty sure that this will be a monster build from lvl10 and up.
    Actually it depends on what I can craft before entering Depot area ... otherwise I will have to kill them with grenades.
     
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  23. sebas Educated

    sebas
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    Yeah, that's not your final sniper build.

    Gun Nut and Ambush are too early.
    You are wasting 2int+1will point

    How do you kill stuff on low hp in an AP efficient way? Point blank nades?
     
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  24. Serious_Business Best Poster on the Codex

    Serious_Business
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    Then it is trash

    Again, mongrel. Higher this time
     
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