Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

So i just finished AoD

Discussion in 'Iron Tower Studio' started by Lhynn, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Parrots:
    8,016
    Most sim games with big databases, like sport games, are fairly complex, especially management games.

    But if you are talking RPGs, the genre as a whole can be beaten by a 12 year old with a lot of free time.

    I think you are sperging here. Try to get your autism checked, it may be harmful to you and others.

    Again confusing difficulty for complexity. Because you are so retarded you may have a brain tumor and dont know it.

    They matter. Saving throws are one of the most important things in the game, and leveling up is important to keep you from being affected by effects all the time, many of them lethal.
    But you conflate shit because you are a retarded shill that cant make a decent argument to save his life.

    The spell system at level 1 is already more complex than anything AoD throws at you, what the fuck are you even talking about?

    It takes a long time, its a very indepth system where a lot of aparently garbage spells have amazing applications. Spells like chromatic orb, or some of the fog spells, that look largely useless at high level, can be used with tremendous results.

    Min/Maxing isnt interesting unless the whole game is about minmaxing in creative, interesting and complex ways. AoD system offers fuck all.

    Difficulty is very subjective, the entire crafting system in arcanum is completely unnecesary, but its hailed as one of the most enjoyable systems in the genre. Because its very well designed and very fun to interact with.

    Actually i had no choice in the playthrough when i didnt have the 200 SP, having those extra points actually gave me a choice, so your argument falls flat once again.

    No u.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. PlanHex Arcane Patron

    PlanHex
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Parrots:
    1,898
    Location:
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Which genres and games does this not apply to?
     
    • it is a mystery it is a mystery x 3
    ^ Top  
  3. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Parrots:
    8,016
    Generally? i guess logical puzzle games. Some grand strategy crap, and a few sims that go to an autistic degree of simulationism.


    Dude has a channel where he analyzes some complex games that require hours to go through the documentation before you can get comfortable with the game. Definitely designed for people with a higher degree of capacity for abstract thought.
    I find his voice so lethargic that i watch his videos when i need to calm myself.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Parrots:
    3,141
    • Which game can't be beaten by a 12 year old with lots of free time?
    • Nah dude, you said 90% of encounters have mages, it's nowhere near that. Why bother replaying with lies?
    • Casting haste and right clicking is complex, according to you?
    • You mentioned ThAC0 yourself, which is a bad example. Now you see your error and move the goal to ST, which is also capable (but harder unless shorty) with starting SoA XP
    • The only part with depth is the counter magic system. Nobody thinks chromatic orb is garbage and it's funny you bless Greater Malison + Chromatic orb cheese.
    • How do you go from character development options to min maxing? Dunno, I had fun planning out characters in AoD so they can grab all optional content
    • How is it unnecessary when the entire technological alignment (core part of system/lore) depends on crafting? It's one of the fundamentals of Arcanum and the most fun part of the game. Just WTF dude.
    • You can play better instead of cheating, just look at Jason's posts about the 1/1 builds, plenty of leftover SP there.
    • No u
     
    ^ Top  
  5. Sòren Augur

    Sòren
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Parrots:
    232
    i played the game again during the last few weeks...actually with four different characters. i thought it was great and probably exactly the rpgcodex definition of a proper rpg (doesn't mean that i think highly of the properties that are attributed to that though). great choice & consequence, no jack of all trades pcs, very tactical combat (except for teleporting which artifically affected the positioning), skill checks, etc.
    the game is not properly balanced for all builds tho, i got like a hundred surplus skill points for my thief (since you don't need much more than 6/6/6 for steal/lockpick/sneak in the whole game...maybe a bit more lockpick, but just if you care enough about some stupid boxes in endgame areas and fourty thieves has a lot less combat encounters) and still could max out crafting and lore. i couldn't dream about so many skill points with my praetor or imperial mercenerary. also prior lore knowloedge of your pc has no influence on future dialouge options ("what the gods need bodies????" yes, you retard, that's what oyu have seen in the abyss and in the mountain monasteries secret chamber), even some AAA ARPEEGEES did that better.
    the writing is not bad, but the narrative lacks any emotional component. the npcs you are dealing with are not boring, but they aren't memorable as well.

    i still think it's a way better rpg (again codex definition) than Fallout 1 or 2 or most other "classics".
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 7
    • WTF am I reading WTF am I reading x 2
    • hopw roewur ne hopw roewur ne x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Big Wrangle Scholar

    Big Wrangle
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2018
    Parrots:
    719
    Location:
    Novo Slava
    He has rejoined the thread once again to grant us... TV Tropes plagiarists.

    Sadly, not worth the wait. :(
     
    ^ Top  
  7. the_shadow Arcane

    the_shadow
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Parrots:
    865
    I finished it recently too.

    I started off with a talker/lore character, and got frustrated by how you still couldn't access a lot of content without combat unless you leveled up other unrelated non-combat skills. I found myself conserving 80 skills points just to level up unrelated skills when I hit an encounter I couldn't otherwise pass. So I went the combat route and... had a blast. I was a bit lacking in lore, so I couldn't discover a lot of the secrets behind the old tech you find lying around, but in a way that's a good thing because it preserved the mystery and kept me thinking. Now that I've got a handle on how the combat system works and have some meta-knowledge I might try with a lore PC and see what I missed.

    I'm not sure if they ever touted the game as a spiritual successor to the original Fallout, but it reminds me of it.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  8. Black Arcane

    Black
    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Parrots:
    1,866,684
    Here's a guy new to the game, critical of some things but generally has fun.
     
    • I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. Swampy_Merkin Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Shitposter

    Swampy_Merkin
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Parrots:
    435
    Location:
    Up Yours!
    Holy crap...Someday when I graduate from actual graduate school, I might look back on this moment in cRPG history and try to justify trying to beat AoD again.

    But....I doubt it.

    Seriously. Who needs that kind of sadistic bullshit unless you actually do live in your grandma-ma's whiskey cellar?
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS x 1
    • WTF am I reading WTF am I reading x 1
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. the_shadow Arcane

    the_shadow
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Parrots:
    865
    I've beaten the game. If I can beat it, it's not *that* hard.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. Zed Duke of Banville Arcane Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Parrots:
    3,297
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    :M :M :M
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  12. Garrafào Barely Literate

    Garrafào
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2018
    Parrots:
    4
    Replaying the game, i really like it,the only downside is that the (amazing)lore is not developed further.
    i liked the intrigue part of the game but the lore of the old days is fucking amazing, i wish they would write a book about it.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 5
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. HeatEXTEND Liturgist

    HeatEXTEND
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Parrots:
    1,622
    Location:
    Nedderlent
    Don't get your hopes up buddy, just remember you're awesome and don't let anyone tell you otherwise!
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. HeatEXTEND Liturgist

    HeatEXTEND
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Parrots:
    1,622
    Location:
    Nedderlent
    :thumbsup:
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Racist Racist x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. Black Arcane

    Black
    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Parrots:
    1,866,684
    Does Darius' helmet serve any purpose or is it just a quest item?
     
    ^ Top  
  16. Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Developer

    Elhoim
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Parrots:
    2,582
    Location:
    San Isidro, Argentina
    It has a purpose in Ganezzar, in House Crassus questline.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. Black Arcane

    Black
    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Parrots:
    1,866,684
    Another thing, say I have a Critical Strike check to pass. Does the game check for my total CS rating or just how many points I have in it?
     
    ^ Top  
  18. AbounI Arcane Patron

    AbounI
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Parrots:
    805
    The game only check your skill level
     
    ^ Top  
  19. Anomander Rake Learned

    Anomander Rake
    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Parrots:
    561
    Can someone tell me if there is a way to flee from the ordu pass? Because I was said it is possible but I couldn't understand if I was trolled or not.
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Sòren Augur

    Sòren
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Parrots:
    232
    as an imperial guards soldier or as an aurelian? and at which point of the quest?
     
    ^ Top  
  21. the_shadow Arcane

    the_shadow
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Parrots:
    865
    I just finished two replays in the past two days (with a diplomatic merchant and a stealth/diplo thief), and I agree about the lore. It's one of the few games I've actually read and enjoyed the backstory and mysteries. I never realized how much stuff I missed on my first playthrough, I didn't even know that you could
    Show Spoiler
    find two more Gods apart from Thor-Agoth.
    My only real issue with the game is that Ganezzar is a bit sparse compared to the first two cities.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • WTF am I reading WTF am I reading x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Strange Fellow Cold Patron

    Strange Fellow
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2018
    Parrots:
    1,040
    The what now??
     
    • it is a mystery it is a mystery x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. Black Arcane

    Black
    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Parrots:
    1,866,684
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • incline incline x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. epeli Prophet

    epeli
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Parrots:
    659
    Hello, is this the place where dirty casuals (playthroughs<7) shit on AoD? Ok, I'm gonna write down some of that before I forget everything. Gonna be a tl;dr post, I might have some fringe opinions that aren't among the common criticisms.

    I absolutely loved the demo I tried. It showed a very solid and promising foundation for an RPG with no modern game design hindrances. But in hindsight, combat in the full game was a bit disappointing because the combat system wasn't developed much further. The gameplay part of your character's development was lacking, since you essentially had the same set of active combat abilities from start to end. Stat growth and different enemies changed how they're best used, yes, but being limited to the same moveset through the entire game does not keep combat interesting for long, even if said movesets are well designed as was the case in AoD. (I didn't fully try all of them, though.) Then there were also combat consumables, expanding your options from the basic attack sets. But, well, it was quite clean-cut and obvious what to use and when, so they didn't actually add that many options. And with the numbers of fights and available consumables, a knowledgeable player could pre-plan consumable use for his next playthrough, probably down to every single instance of it - some might like that sort of thing, but to me it is indicative of too tightly controlled item economy and/or lack of content.

    I'm sure most codex grognards, myself included, enjoyed how tightly balanced the combat system was. Good difficulty with small tolerances due to carefully controlled number of skillpoints & items and equally tightly defined combat encounters. All this shows hard work and dedication, which is respectable, but in hindsight I wouldn't say any of those are intrinsic values of good singleplayer CRPG combat design. Better suited for competitive multiplayer games. And by that I don't mean AoD's combat system is good for multiplayer, but its focus on balancing befits competitive MP. (Back in the heyday of MMORPGs I would have loved to play one with PvP balanced by AoD's team - balance in those games was always shit in the areas that AoD handles extremely well.) Maybe it's just me, but I imagine that developing the combat system further to make the mechanical side of character development more satisfying that slightly tweaking hit chances would've resulted in a better game, even if that was done at the cost of less difficulty/balance polishing. I also don't remember the AI ever doing anything that left a positive impression (no negatives either), but that was more or less expected with the combat actions available and the focus on man to man melee fights.

    Skimming through this thread I noticed a shitposter who mentioned control-freak devs. I'm gonna say he's got a good and often overlooked point. I can't give concrete examples of what makes it so, but one major difference between AoD and more enjoyable RPGs is player freedom. Everything from story to combat felt very tightly choreographed and calculated with very little - if any - room for emergent gameplay. One way to put it to words would be this: There are many choices, but none of them are yours. They're Iron Tower's choices. Don't remember where I heard that, but it wasn't codex. In a weird juxtaposition AoD had the most branching story ever, yet it felt very.. uhm, railroaded? Linear? Welp, that doesn't adequately convey what I mean, but I hope the idea came through somewhat intact.

    Can't have a post like this without a paragraph on the infamous dialog teleports, so: The game world lacked cohesion. Dialog teleports were but a small part of the problem. What's realistically doable is always limited, but there has to be something between distant major locations other than a click on a map/dialog node. Something to convey (preferably through gameplay, let players experience it through their actions) that the world is more than a handful of disconnected areas. On the world scale of AoD, an overworld map a la Fallout is probably the best way to implement this without creating ridiculous amount of (often superfluous) content. Even if exploration wasn't a design focus, there are limits to how completely it can be ignored in an RPG. Out of all things, I'm going to point at the lack of world cohesion as the main reason why people disparagingly call AoD a CYOA book. There's some good worldbuilding, but the physical world space is just isn't there.

    All in all AoD didn't turn out to be a personal favorite. It's good for what it is. Played it a few times when it came out before interest declined, a couple runs short of the magical meme seven times. I got into AoD for its no-dumbed-down-crap attitude and promising combat, but the most enjoyable part of the game ended up being discovering the underlying mysteries of its very well done setting and seeing some of the story events unfold from many different perspectives. The crazy amount of branching was unique, but AoD is also a good example of why no other game ever did that. Everything else suffers if too much development focus is put into it.

    Lastly, few notes on the less important stuff. Assets: 2D art was absolutely gorgeous (potraits, icons, UI), 3D ranged from serviceable to shit (both meshes and textures, mostly meshes), animations were good, music was fitting. Don't remember a single thing about sounds, so they were unintrusive and unremarkable. Crafting was the bad kind of crafting: tacked-on addition instead of a well developed core system. However, that didn't bother me since the game was already extremely barebones outside combat and dialog. Ditching the crafting systems wouldn't have been a bad thing in the sense that everything they did could've been integrated into the game through other means, but that would have diminished character development choices and made the gameplay even more barebones.

    In conclusion, it was like a combat system was perfected in excel and tons of dialog writing/scripting was done, but somehow the game underneath them was forgotten. Forgive the vagueness of this retrospect, it's been years since I touched the game.

    Ha, that certainly explains why the world of AoD is full of unlikable assholes. Hopefully that contemporary corporate cunt culture is better thematical fit for a colony ship.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 7
    • I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)