So what's better, TESC or Aurora Toolset?

I've been playing around a lot with the Aurora Toolset for NWN lately but I found all the scripting a bit intimidating. There's no doubt the Aurora Toolset is more potent than TESC for Morrwind, but I found the Morrowind editor easier to work with.

 

Professionally speaking, I'd have to say that I prefer this editor.

Did they ever fix NWToolset so that you could edit a script and a map simultaneously?

 

Nah. You can edit everything at once in NWN2, but NWN1 will always be modal.

I found TESC to be harder to get into than Aurora. Then again, that might have something to do with not liking Morrowind all that much in the first place.

 

Writing extensive dialogue is a PITA in TECS. But creating & modelling scenery is very easy, even without soil erosion.

 

Aurora's. I'm slowly learning to script properly without cheating, and slowly finishing my module(s0. Haven't even bothered with MW's totolset.


The biggest difference is NWN's toolset allows the modmaker to do whatever they want - add to the official campaign or make their own.

Seesm to me the only thing MW's toolset is good/used for is adding stupid stuff to the main game like new clothes and models; but there is no world creation and whatnot.

BORING!!!

 

There is world creation; you can make your own *.esm files ("Master" files - not just ordinary plugins that build on the main game).

 

No, you can change/create the world, manually erode soil, place objects, etc. But I agree, Aurora is more powerful.

I can't wait to play your level.

 

Volourn you're misinformed - although you can't create true separate worldspaces in MW that you can in NWN, you can do a considerable amount of worldbuilding, large gameplay alterations and questing. Most people simply add islands or areas to house their mod. The open ended nature of Morrowind means you don't have to touch the amin quest if you don't want to just ignore the original content and go striaght for the mod. Adding new items to the game is the most common sort of plugin you'll see but there's plenty more out there than that.

I've yet to touch the Aurora toolset as of yet, partly because there's so many modules out there already that so far, it's been more interesting to see what other people have done than making anything myself.

-S

 

Yes, there are even "blank" .esm just to created the landscape for a completly new world.

Also plugins work far better in relation to what you can add and remove, unlike NwN were you are forced to open the module, add the stuff and close.

From my impressions CS is more powerful that Aurora toolset because it lacks the "training wheels" BioWare put in to prevent people from fucking things over.

 

"The open ended nature of Morrowind means you don't have to touch the amin quest if you don't want to just ignore the original content and go striaght for the mod."

Yeah, thats' the problem though. No matter what, you'd be a part of the 'MW world'. With NWN, you can add/change the included campaign(s) or simply make your own world.


"Yes, there are even "blank" .esm just to created the landscape for a completly new world."

If so, it must be near impossible to do; because I certainly haven't heard of anyone who goes this route. Or perhaps the problem is with the fools modding it.


"Also plugins work far better in relation to what you can add and remove, unlike NwN were you are forced to open the module, add the stuff and close."

OMG! You have to open the module to add stuff! Perish the thoguht! WOWSERS! WHAT A CRIME! WOWSERS! STOP THE PRESSES! IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD! YOU GOTTA OPEN THE MODULE TO ADD STUFF! AHHHHHHHHHHHH! OHHH NOOOSSS!!!


"I can't wait to play your level."

Level? With NWN, you don't simply create a level, you create a WORLD!

 

Can you strip the D&D out of NWN and make new rules? I know that's not possible in Morrowind.

 

Nope.

 

Good for both games then. That be stupid.

 

I'm sure you know this, but the point is that in Morrowind you can create a plugin and load it into the gameworld so it becomes seamless. Whereas Neverwinter Nights' modular nature means that it needs to be a map separate from the one where the main campaign is set. So while in Morrowind you can create an island and place it smacked right into the main game and access it immediately and seamlessly, in Neverwinter Nights you have to create a map and load it separately from the main game.

Well, it's actually possible in NWN to add something to the main game, but since it directly modifies the module where the Acts occur, this means it's pretty impossible to share it with the world because you're modifying the heavy OC files and sharing them over the web is painful for those with slow connections.

To me, that's always been one of the key reasons why Neverwinter Nights isn't the D&D experience many claim it to be. The DM's ability to add things to a game on the fly has always been one of the key features of D&D; NWN just doesn't support this fully.

 

Come to think of it, doesn't the inability to create one's own rules in the Neverwinter Nights engine basically limit our module development? The other day I was browsing trough my plans regarding magic, and one of them was to create a couple of different spellcasting classes and different spells. Won't it seem incongruous to just have a different setting than those presented in D&D but then use D&D rules?

 

" in Neverwinter Nights you have to create a map and load it separately from the main game. "

No, you don't.


"Well, it's actually possible in NWN to add something to the main game, but since it directly modifies the module where the Acts occur, this means it's pretty impossible to share it with the world because you're modifying the heavy OC files and sharing them over the web is painful for those with slow connections."

Heh. Make up your mind. It is very possible to do this, and in fact, various mods/haks do this. Improved AI, improved henchmen, and other various stuff.

Sure, it's definitely not as easy as MW; but NWN was neve rmenat to be 'add to the OC'; but to create your own.


"To me, that's always been one of the key reasons why Neverwinter Nights isn't the D&D experience many claim it to be. The DM's ability to add things to a game on the fly has always been one of the key features of D&D; NWN just doesn't support this fully."

Actually, NWN *does* support this. Have you tried the OC with a DM for example? Many apparantly have, and you can add and change all sorts of things to enahnce the experience.

And, as above, you can make changes to the OC - add maps, characters, and such to it. I think it's more the fact that most people find it a waste of time to add things to the official campaign when they can be more creative and make their own story/world/characters then adding soemthing to BIO's campaign(s).


"Come to think of it, doesn't the inability to create one's own rules in the Neverwinter Nights engine basically limit our module development? The other day I was browsing trough my plans regarding magic, and one of them was to create a couple of different spellcasting classes and different spells. Won't it seem incongruous to just have a different setting than those presented in D&D but then use D&D rules?"

Well.. it depends on how far out the different sspellcasting classes will be. Creating new spells is already possible in NWN so I'm sure it's possible for NWN2. People have even found a way to add actual pnp epic spells into NWN instead of the epic spells as feat that BIO used (which is fine; but not the same). People have even added spells like Teleport and True Ressurection (and subseuqently the atcual penalties for the various raise spells). Material components are even possible.

So, really, we won't know 100% sure what is possible untilw e get the game. But, true, if we go completely different from D&D spellcatsing rules we'd probably need a hack of some sort.

Remember, even psionics have been added to NWN1. If you expaliend to me how your spellcasting differs from D&D then I might be able to make an educated guess if it's possible in NWN1 (and, if so, NWN2 as well).

 

I found NWN's toolset to be a strange beast. The scripting was daunting for non-programmers, and yet the world editing was frustratingly simplified for anyone who'd ever edited a game world. But, I never really tried any in depth editing with either editor, just because I wasn't a fan of the core systems in both games.

I'd prefer to take an engine with simpler gameplay components and build complexity upon that rather than chopping and hacking around what's there. It's going to take more work, but the end result is less "tainted."

 

Well, scripting is indeed much better in MW then in NWN.. but AD&D ruleset firmly killed any desire to mod NWN after a few failed attempts to get around it's limitations.

 

Note that I didn't dispute that. I suspect the OC wasn't meant to be changed at all in the same sense that Morrowind's singleplayer portion can be. Simply put, that Morrowind usually has a much more seamless and direct application of user-made content, in particular large scale changes.

A DM running NWN's OC can change and add many things, I'm sure, but making dynamic large scale changes doesn't seem possible, not to the degree a DM can in a pen and paper session. It's getting there, but still not quite.

In regards with spells, the main issue was with trying to present different spells because we had decided to go with a unique setting, so I thought some changes should be made. One of them was to lessen the spell number but focus on more important spells, as well as situations to use said spells. I was initially going with the idea of creating distinct spellcasting variants, such as Chronomancer, Elementalists, Psykers, etc., but this seems overkill and the variety they'd present is misleading, ie, a Chronomancer with Slow Time would be the same as an Elementalist with Earth Cage and the same as a Psyker with Induced Fatigue, etc. And spellcasting classes would seem far too varied when compared to, say, melee oriented classes. Though its still up for debate.

Some of the spells were of the environmental kind which I have no idea would be possible to perform. Is it possible to create a spell that...

• Can cause a distant sound which will make NPCs go there and investigate?
• Can trap a target in a sphere (as Otiluke's Resilient Sphere did) and allow the PC to manipulate the sphere (as if it were an object) for the spell's duration?
• Float, or at best, teleport a slight distance ahead?
• Allow the PC to touch a tree and teleport from the one he touches to another one (both in the same map and in a different one)?
• Change weather conditions in a local area?
• Remove items an NPC is currently holding in his or her hand?

To name a few.

 

If a DM wants to make such extensive changes why isn't he making his own module?

 

Spells are just script triggers, so many of those are possible. Or at least seemed doable back when I had NWN installed.

Otiluke's Resilient Sphere sounds iffy, as does the dimension-door equivalent. The UI for both would probably be annoying. Don't know about weather conditions. Tree Portal is easy... if you do trees as placeables and not as terrain. Disarm NPC is easy. Ventriloquism is easy.

 

TESC is incredibly easy to learn, it's just that you cant do much besides add things into the game world or slightly modify the world.

It would be nice if you could change the stat/skill system, because Morrowind's is horrible.

THe only thing that takes more then 2 minutes to learn is scripting

 

And that is mostly because documentation is horrible, incomplete, riddled with typos, and scripting engine is buggy and limited as well.
To script something other then 'play sound or animation group under sertain conditions', etc - you would need to have a mindset as perverted as... well, words do not even begin to describe it .

 

Which means you are one of the most contorted, perverted, and utterly lost souls out there
For me as a hobbyist I can say- it's not that bad. But I guess for a real programmer, who expects his languages to be clearly documented and working as advertised (not to mention packaged with decent debugging tools), I guess it's terribly frustrating. Still, bugged or not, its the part of the editor that adds the most flexibility into MW modding.

 

I've been running a campaign in NWN for about two years with a group of players, and my view regarding the toolset that it's quite bloody limited in quite a few aspects, especially when it comes to area building.

However, I've never really had a big problem with it. I've tried editing before in a few games, and to put it bluntly, I just can't edit 3D areas. At least with the NWN Toolset, I am capable of creating areas prepped and ready to run the players through. Furthermore, I really like the customisation options when working with the base races(ie. humans, elves, gnomes, etc.), as well as building armors with various slots.

Also, because of this ease of use, it's an excellent editor for weekly DMed campaigns. A week is more than enough to prep enough material for a three-hour session.

Haven't tooled around with the Morrowind toolset, can't say much about that.