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Spoiler-Safe Pathfinder: Kingmaker Self-Help Thread (Now ruined by munchkin assholes)

Serus

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Crane Style chain works regardless of your weapon despite the description. You can wield a two handed sword and still enjoy its benefits.

thats a bug and an obvious exploit.
Then I assume you don't use any class with sneak attack as well. After all flanking doesn't work like in pnp and can be considered a bug. So does crane style. The devs decided not to patch crane style ergo they decided it should work as it is now. When there were still many patches to be made we could assume they will patch it. Now however it is simply impossible to tell if it's a bug or is working as intended.

If you don't want to play a martial build and or are overwhelmed with build making. You can always just a roll a sylvan sorcerer with a smiilodon pet.
Not sure about that. Will a beginner know what spell to pick at each level?
 

Ravness

Educated
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Mar 16, 2017
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Just picked up the game and ran with Alchemist, dunno if I should continue on with it or just reroll into a fighter or monk. The range stuff is great but I usually just throw out bombs, should I invest into more supporting spells other than bombs?
I'm relativily still early on, I would say

I killed tartuccio the first time in the cave
 

razvedchiki

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Then I assume you don't use any class with sneak attack as well. After all flanking doesn't work like in pnp and can be considered a bug. So does crane style. The devs decided not to patch crane style ergo they decided it should work as it is now. When there were still many patches to be made we could assume they will patch it. Now however it is simply impossible to tell if it's a bug or is working as intended.

i actually dont use any class with sneak attack,also using closer to tabletop mod in which you have to get behind someone to qualify for flanking.
 

Pink Eye

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What I like is that the thread started as a "help with the basics" thread by Crispy but it took only a bit to turn it into another munchkin thread for PF:K with various terms thrown around and meta-builds and exploits and what have you :P
I mean if you want tips, that's just how it is. The game is complex. Giving people basic information won't be sufficient, as it won't prepare them for the challenges in the game.
 

Pink Eye

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Crane Style chain works regardless of your weapon despite the description. You can wield a two handed sword and still enjoy its benefits.

thats a bug and an obvious exploit.
Then I assume you don't use any class with sneak attack as well. After all flanking doesn't work like in pnp and can be considered a bug. So does crane style. The devs decided not to patch crane style ergo they decided it should work as it is now. When there were still many patches to be made we could assume they will patch it. Now however it is simply impossible to tell if it's a bug or is working as intended.

If you don't want to play a martial build and or are overwhelmed with build making. You can always just a roll a sylvan sorcerer with a smiilodon pet.
Not sure about that. Will a beginner know what spell to pick at each level?
>Not sure about that. Will a beginner know what spell to pick at each level?
The pet would be more than capable of carrying you throughout the game. I don't think a beginner will be playing on a hard difficulty, so the pet should be more than able to outperform most of the content in the game.
 

Haba

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Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Just picked up the game and ran with Alchemist, dunno if I should continue on with it or just reroll into a fighter or monk. The range stuff is great but I usually just throw out bombs, should I invest into more supporting spells other than bombs?

Bomberman Alchemist is an easy build, don't need to really think about feats too much. More bombs, better bombs, bombs all the way. You can find quite a few items that make it even better.

But Jubilost does the same thing, so there is that. You could make your PC fill a niche that others don't (or do poorly).
 

Pink Eye

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Just picked up the game and ran with Alchemist, dunno if I should continue on with it or just reroll into a fighter or monk. The range stuff is great but I usually just throw out bombs, should I invest into more supporting spells other than bombs?
I'm relativily still early on, I would say

I killed tartuccio the first time in the cave
>Just picked up the game and ran with Alchemist, dunno if I should continue on.
Alchemists are great! Their ability to attack touch AC makes them a great choice.

>should I invest into more supporting spells other than bombs?
Choose feats that make your bombs better. Point strike, precise shot, weapon focus bombs, critical focus bombs, and most importantly infusion (It allows you to use personal spells on other party members). You also never go wrong with extra bombs. Besides that invest in survivability feats. Shake it off, Iron Will, Improved Iron will, and so on and so forth.

For spells I suggest Echolocation, very important for bypassing blur and other concealment effects, stone skin communal, legendary proportions, spell protection.
 

Luckmann

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Crane Style chain works regardless of your weapon despite the description. You can wield a two handed sword and still enjoy its benefits.

thats a bug and an obvious exploit.
Then I assume you don't use any class with sneak attack as well. After all flanking doesn't work like in pnp and can be considered a bug. So does crane style.
The difference is that Sneak Attack isn't a Feat with a description that says one thing, but with a functionality that ignores it. I don't give a shit if using Crane Style is "a bug and obvious exploit" or not, and I'm inclined to think that it *should* work the way it works now, regardless of what the PnP says, and people that references issues in PF:K based on "muh PnP" are tools, but to argue that Crane Style *isn't* bugged when it clearly doesn't work as per the description is just fucming retarded.
 

Serus

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Crane Style chain works regardless of your weapon despite the description. You can wield a two handed sword and still enjoy its benefits.

thats a bug and an obvious exploit.
Then I assume you don't use any class with sneak attack as well. After all flanking doesn't work like in pnp and can be considered a bug. So does crane style.
The difference is that Sneak Attack isn't a Feat with a description that says one thing, but with a functionality that ignores it. I don't give a shit if using Crane Style is "a bug and obvious exploit" or not, and I'm inclined to think that it *should* work the way it works now, regardless of what the PnP says, and people that references issues in PF:K based on "muh PnP" are tools, but to argue that Crane Style *isn't* bugged when it clearly doesn't work as per the description is just fucming retarded.

Isn't there a reference to dragon totem in the in-game text ? According to your own logic lack of this barbarian totem must be a "bug". But it clearly isn't. It's just that some texts are direct leftovers from pnp books, despite the game being different in places from the books. Probably there are other such cases. The devs simply didn't care to correct the text from rulebooks. Maybe the crane feat is also such a leftover and the intention was always to make it work differently than in pnp.
Don't get me wrong, You are probably right that it's a bug that they didn't found time to correct despite extensive patching. However i stand by my point that we can't be 100% sure about it.
In addition the original point was, i believe, about what is an exploit not what is a bug or not. Gaius takes a very rigid stance on that. Good for him.
"Fucming" really? Hold your horses. :)
And quote whole relevant text you respond to, please.
 
Joined
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Don't ignore Power Attack. It depends on your build of course, but I completed my Challenging run with a 2-handed fighter, and for those guys, Power Attack is one of the centerpieces of the build.

Regular power attack gives 10 extra damage per attack by the high Stankmaker levels. But if you wielding a 2-hander, you get 1.5 bonus, so that becomes 15 damage. But a 15th level 2-handed fighter gets an ability that doubles that bonus, so 2x bonus, meaning 20 extra damage per attack. Now my build was a crit build naturally (15-20 crit threat roll for elven curve blade), so almost 3rd of the time I was critting on my 5 attacks per round (with Haste). So 3rd of the time, extra 40 damage per attack. That's more than some builds attack damage.

And also, 2-handed fighter has VERY high AB. With fighter BAB, +5 weapon, weapon focus and greater weapon focus, advanced weapon training, gloves of dueling, and then throw in all the bonuses from bard songs, heroism, buffs, etc, my last attack in the round was usually 20 + 20. So in most cases, the -5 penalty from Power Attack didn't change anything. On the other hand, the extra damage helped overcome damage reduction almost every enemy has in the later chapters. Between the Penetrating Strike feats and the extra damage, I was doing ridiculous damage to everything.
 

Trashos

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Dec 28, 2015
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To clarify, I am not against Power Attack at all, when it is actually good. I was commenting on the advice given that people should be using Power Attack generally.

Now, if newcomers can understand when to toggle it on and off, or at least act according to helpful rules of thumb, then by all means they should be using it.
 

kelkorkesis

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Dec 10, 2019
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92
combat maneuvers
Not worth it if you spend action to do it. There are ways to get free trip attempts. And there is a very good weapon deals damage when you trip. I read a very good trip build in this forum from Haplo before but couldn't remember the details.

vital strike
If you are willing to optimize for it yes. A cleaving finish triggered by vital strike does vital strike damage. Sword Saint's Perfect strike maximizes weapon damage dice. Then you stack size bonuses. When you hit everything dies. Haplo posted some screenshots of it.
 
Self-Ejected

underground nymph

I care not!
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Strap Yourselves In
combat maneuvers
Not worth it if you spend action to do it.
Yeah, my thoughts.
vital strike
If you are willing to optimize for it yes. A cleaving finish triggered by vital strike does vital strike damage. Sword Saint's Perfect strike maximizes weapon damage dice. Then you stack size bonuses. When you hit everything dies. Haplo posted some screenshots of it.
Valuable info, thanks. Isn’t vital strike with max AB better than say three attacks with lower average chances of hitting?
 

kelkorkesis

Novice
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Dec 10, 2019
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Valuable info, thanks. Isn’t vital strike with max AB better than say three attacks with lower average chances of hitting?
It depends on your to hit, strength and weapon. But generally no, not worth it because for each attack you add you add your strength and your weapon's enchantment bonuses. Vital strike only gives extra weapon damage dice
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Crane Style chain works regardless of your weapon despite the description. You can wield a two handed sword and still enjoy its benefits.

thats a bug and an obvious exploit.

Well, in regard to Wing and Riposte.
Nothing in the description of the "base" Crane Style feat suggests it shouldn't work with both hands busy.
The latter feats of the chain should require a free offhand -> I only use base Crane Style. It costs me 0 additional feats, as I take it as monk bonus on 1st level.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,103
What is it you are upset about, Crispy?

Hemorrhoids.

Can anybody say something about combat maneuvers and vital strike? Are they feats worth investing in?

Combat maneuvers are bleh for your main, because you won't be able to do anything else. They are useful for minions.

Vital strike is shiiite. I actually thought about making some kind of a Vital Strike build, maybe with Sword Saint and thier arcane points to get full damage/crit thing, but the math never works out for me. Essentially, you get so many attacks per round in Shitmaker (5 with haste for fighters for example), and so much added damage from stats/feats/equipment/buffs, that this per hit damage dwarfs anything you can do with base weapon damage, like with Vital Strike. For example, hardest hitting weapon is like 1-12 let's say, so fully pimped out Vital Strike is 4x, so you'll get something like 4-48 damage. That's an average of 26. My two handed fighter by end game had like +60 damage (before crits). So it's a useless feat. They should've made it multiply adjusted damage, then it would make more sense (trade-off between one hard hit vs many lighter hits).
 

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