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Stardock's last chance... Elemental: Fallen Enchantress released

Zed

Codex Staff
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Alright so the game went live today. I'm downloading it as I'm typing this (3.5gb).

I got it for free because I bought their piece of shit game Elemental: War of Magic. Nice gesture, I suppose.

First impressions from testers seems to be that it's pretty good?
 

hoverdog

dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
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Project: Eternity
Started it. Factions still as boring as before. Launched a new game. It's working slower than in the beta. Hardly any changes. Magic still sucks. Champions still overpowered.

:killit:
 

Zed

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Says I need to be near grain to Settle, which I assume is to create a city. There is no grain anywhere.
 

sser

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Beta tester here.

The game is pretty bland. I didn't realize how bad it really was until I played Paradox's Warlock which is just a superior game in pretty much every respect. I do not know why Stardock even bothered to put a game in a fantasy element when they barely used any imagination for their game. How come every faction is more or less the same? In Warlock, you have humans, monsters, undead, and elves -- with plenty fantasy-genre units sprinkled in. Fallen Enchantress is just fucking boring in every sense of the word by comparison.

Also, I'm pretty miffed they refused to give me a Steam key after buying it for their awful Stardock platform crap.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
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Jun 15, 2009
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9,185
Elemental was a broken unplayable turd, fallen enchantres is mediocre, its a massive improvment you could say...Its still not fun, ressources location are too random, say you are planning a fire spec+ air mage, too bad theres only a water shard near, oh and you wont get the metal for your troop either. Random monsters avoid IA cities but not yours, IA in overall is poor and cheating, able to build near major monsters without trouble. Units still dull without style, like your sovereign, and quickly obsolete to boot.Magic unimaginative and less than spectacular, tech tree is a ladder.Plenty of poorly though game mechanisms,theres no reasons to not spam cities i could go on and on, its inferior to anything i could play in the last decades.

However the 300 people on stardock forum who answered the poll are ecstatic with it. Except for those few sycophants theres absolutely no reason to buy this game, warlock is indeed superior, although still limted in my opinion.
 

Zboj Lamignat

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Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,548
Wow, are you guys serious about this game being more bland than Warlock? Warlock was pretty much a definition of a bland game for me so this really doesn't leave much hope for the Fallen Enchantress and looking at hoverdog's LP I was hoping for at least a few decent days with a new 4x fantasy strategy:(
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
One not liking Warlock, the other wanting a Galciv 3. It is now confirmed that Xcom detractors cannot into turn based strategy. :troll:
 

Malakal

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Seriously guys, what were you expecting? Its hard to find a game blander and less inspired than GalCiv (even if mechanics are sound), now you have GalCiv - Fantasy!

Granted Kael has a good record from FFH. Pity his potential apparently went to waste. Well, hes not his own boss any more and it shows....
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

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I said it in another thread a month or so ago. E:FE has the potential to be good but needs a LOT of refinement before it gets there. This is too little, too soon.
 

hoverdog

dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
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Granted Kael has a good record from FFH. Pity his potential apparently went to waste. Well, hes not his own boss any more and it shows....
That's what I don't get. FFH had *the* most diverse and unique races in both concept and playstyle, and yet in Fallen Enchantress all the factions are bland and pretty much the same. What did Stardock do with him, I wonder? Have they only hired him to say "hey guys, we want to get better, so look who we've hired" and locked him in a cellar to prevent him from meddling and putting some soul into the game? Poor guy.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Warlock was awesome. If they finished the game and actually added multiplayer it would even be worth praising.
 

Metro

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Damn, I was hoping this would turn out okay. Maybe it will after a few patches get applied before a 75% off sale!
 

hoverdog

dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
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Patches won't fix it. It's the basic stuff that's broken, like magic.

Can you tell me what's so botched up about it?
What isn't?
The fundamental error of Elemental's magic system is that you can't control how your spellcasting develops. You gain new spells at levelups, when you pick advance in a magic school by picking a perk (you were lvl 1 in fire, now you're level 2 and gain lvl 2 spells). But it's random - you might not always get a magic perk in the school you want to develop, or even you might not get a magic perk at all. Then there's the problem of magic power. A spell is static - even if you're a grandmaster of all schools, a burning hand still does 4-8 damage. The only way to change it is to find a fire node and build an altar on it. But there might not be a fire node anywhere near you. So you have a fire magic expert whose fire magic is weak. That's a great mechanic.
There isn't a lot of spells too. About 3 per level, so each magic school has a grand total of 15-16 or so spells - so under a hundred overall. What's more, they are completely imbalanced, so half of them is useless, a quarter situational, and the rest is OP and should be cast whenever you can. City enchantments, for example, are completely overpowered. How about a lvl 1 (or 2 - it's often available from the start) spell that improves your starting city's production by about a half? And has no upkeep too? On the other hand, summoning doesn't exist. There theoretically are a few such spells, but they are costly and weak. Better forget about it.
I also don't like the fact that overland spells are instant, and you can cast as many of them in a turn as you want.
 

Baptismbyfire

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
182
Patches won't fix it. It's the basic stuff that's broken, like magic.

Can you tell me what's so botched up about it?
What isn't?
The fundamental error of Elemental's magic system is that you can't control how your spellcasting develops. You gain new spells at levelups, when you pick advance in a magic school by picking a perk (you were lvl 1 in fire, now you're level 2 and gain lvl 2 spells). But it's random - you might not always get a magic perk in the school you want to develop, or even you might not get a magic perk at all. Then there's the problem of magic power. A spell is static - even if you're a grandmaster of all schools, a burning hand still does 4-8 damage. The only way to change it is to find a fire node and build an altar on it. But there might not be a fire node anywhere near you. So you have a fire magic expert whose fire magic is weak. That's a great mechanic.
There isn't a lot of spells too. About 3 per level, so each magic school has a grand total of 15-16 or so spells - so under a hundred overall. What's more, they are completely imbalanced, so half of them is useless, a quarter situational, and the rest is OP and should be cast whenever you can. City enchantments, for example, are completely overpowered. How about a lvl 1 (or 2 - it's often available from the start) spell that improves your starting city's production by about a half? And has no upkeep too? On the other hand, summoning doesn't exist. There theoretically are a few such spells, but they are costly and weak. Better forget about it.
I also don't like the fact that overland spells are instant, and you can cast as many of them in a turn as you want.


Wait, so every time you level up, you can "pick" a perk, but it's totally random? Or is it divided into disciplines/areas, such as strength, dexterity, intelligence, and magic, and the game just randomly gives you one from the area you have selected? Are the perks in a branching progression like Diablo 3, where you essentially have no choice? Or is it more like Torchlight 2, where you are given some choice?

And if you go to a fire node you can up your burning hand damage? Sounds interesting, but I wonder how it actually plays out.

So I'm assuming there is no mana outside of combat, and that is why you are not limited to how many spells you can cast on the overland map?

Much of what you say sounds like it can be fix with a balance mod, but I haven't played it yet, so I don't know whether I should risk the $40 or not. It's sad that there are so few 4x games are there with any depth to it, that we gamers have to make do with design flaws and imbalances, and lower our standard quite a bit.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,185
No you get 4 traits to select but completely randomly, so its not rare theres nothing usefull at all for your character in it. As for the nodes, you dont have to just go to the node, you have ot own it, problem is you spec your char to some school of magic before the beggining, so its likely you end up with a school and not the nodes , your game is screwed at the beggining. Theres manaoutside combat but no limit on how many spells you can use. Well hoverdog sums up the magic well nothing to add.
A balance mod cant possibly fix it, the core of the gameplay is rotten, i know theres few 4X and nothing like master of magic, but i wont lower my standards to that shit . Its pretty much the same as saying hey theres not many rpgs so we must lower our standard and enjoy the like of dragon age 2 and arcania.
 

Internet

Scholar
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
136
Granted Kael has a good record from FFH. Pity his potential apparently went to waste. Well, hes not his own boss any more and it shows....
That's what I don't get. FFH had *the* most diverse and unique races in both concept and playstyle, and yet in Fallen Enchantress all the factions are bland and pretty much the same. What did Stardock do with him, I wonder? Have they only hired him to say "hey guys, we want to get better, so look who we've hired" and locked him in a cellar to prevent him from meddling and putting some soul into the game? Poor guy.

I haven't played Fallen Enchantres, but in Elemental the problem was that the player "designs" its own units as it unlocks new weapons/resources with little variety between the factions and obvious optimal combinations. The system sounds interesting in theory, but practically the unit progression was the same for everybody. Think about the difference between factions in, say, Age of Wonders and then Elemental..I guess art assets are cheaper this way since there is less variety.
 

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