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Stellaris - Paradox new sci-fi grand strategy game

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Perkel, Aug 6, 2015.

  1. chuft Liturgist

    chuft
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    I do not really understand what refugees are. Are they just pops from other empires that they displace somehow? If so, it seems like having it on is like having a migration treaty with everyone on the map.

    Similarly, I guess having a migration treaty with anyone is likely to allow every species in the game to eventually end up in your empire if they go via your migration treaty partner.

    I guess it's all or nothing with these refugee/migration treaties.

    If you like your main species, it seems to keep them in control, you need to
    - have no migration treaties at all, even with empires dominated by species you like
    - disallow all refugees not of your citizen race/only give citizen to your own species
    - set default rights to No Migration in case you conquer some aliens

    Too late for this game it appears, but good to know for next game. It sounds like any migration treaty at all/allowing refugees is just opening the doors to every species in the galaxy.

    Am I right in thinking that setting default rights to No Migration for non-citizens won't keep out species coming from a migration partner? Or can you grant citizenship to their main species, and thus allow the treaty to only let in their main species and not any other species infesting their empire? I assumed Migration Controls only applied inside your empire for pops already there, but maybe this can be used to selectively let in species you like.

    On a side note, it's 2392, I've conquered all the empires of any note except one, conquered the fallen empire, and everyone else is Pathetic, all techs are researched except the repeating ones. Is there any point in continuing this game? I have never seen a "Crisis" but I am not sure it is worth sitting here for hours building more Urban Districts and Holo Theaters just to see one. There don't seem to be any game-ending victory conditions.
     
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  2. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    man, been there -- always set the late and mid games to start 50 years earlier in setup otherwise the galaxy is just boring
     
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  3. Olinser Educated

    Olinser
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    Actual refugees are caused by an empire Purging a species with it set to 'Displacement'. Migration can come from a number of different sources.

    Setting it to No Migration will work, but you also have to set default rights to non-citizens.

    As for Victory - yes, there is technically a Victory. Go to the Situation Log and there's another tab on the bottom for 'Victory'. This gives you the point totals and ranking for all empires discovered in the game. Whatever year you set the game to end in, that's the year that whoever is ranked #1 will be declared winner.

    Crisis can be interesting if you haven't seen them before, but there's zero point to waiting for the arbitrary victory year.
     
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  4. MadMaxHellfire Arcane

    MadMaxHellfire
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    with the old tile system refugees could have been an invaluable boon, right now they're useful only in the beginning, when you don't get refugees: because only one race can grow at a time, and the system automatically tried to balance 50/50%. if you built your race around growth speed (which now is more important than ever) you're giving the bonus away, either completely or crippling yourself with a permanent -20% just for the sake of a minor baby boom. to circumvent this, the only way is creating ghetto planets, but i thought the point of this new system was to reduce micromanagement, not worsen it.
     
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  5. chuft Liturgist

    chuft
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    Can you explain this further? I am starting a new game and I am not sure what you mean by a permanent -20%, or a minor baby boom.
     
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  6. oldmanpaco Master of Siestas

    oldmanpaco
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    'Sup fellow negroes what mods do you use with this? Been using that AI mod and Real Space but what else is good?
     
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  7. Olinser Educated

    Olinser
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    He's referring to the fact that the population growth is arbitrary, only 1 type of population can grow at a time, and because of the stupid system they set up it significantly favors low-population species.

    So if you get ONE refugee from a different population, unless you enable both growth and migration controls on that population (which you CANNOT DO for some governments and ethics), every single planet in your empire starts growing the new population instead of your primary population, its almost guaranteed that their bonuses are worse than yours, and the idiots STILL grow on planets that have insanely low habitability for them.

    If you can't enable population or migration controls your only option is to go into the population of every panel and lock it into your main species, which has a 20% growth penalty.

    So you take all those penalties for the sake of a handful of pops of a sub-optimal species.

    Unless you immediately enable population controls refugees suck on every conceivable level.
     
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  8. Storyfag Arcane

    Storyfag
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    But those growth penalties mean nothing anyway. Gene Clinics + Clone Vats ahoy!
     
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  9. chuft Liturgist

    chuft
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    Thanks. It sounds like the wiki page on pop growth is misleading. It makes it sound like non-citizens have lower growth priority, and low-habitability species do too. In fact they make it sound like species don't migrate to low-hab (for them) planets much.

    What I was reading:
    https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Population#Demographics

    Good to know.
     
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  10. Olinser Educated

    Olinser
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    They do have lower growth priority. But it's still not a small number, so WAY too many of them still grow, and because of their stupid population growth system, every one of them REPLACES the growth of a regular citizen species, unless you put population controls or are willing to force growth of primary species at the 20% penalty.
     
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  11. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    It gets worse, you can weaponize popgrowth. Because underrepresented species, INCLUDING subspecies, are overrepresented in growth weighting, until they have their "fair share" of the pie, what you can do is this:

    1. Create 10 different minor variants of the same trash species.

    2. Fob trash species onto some "refugees welcome" species.

    3. Observe as their own race now falls to a 10% share of the population and 90% of their population becomes copies of a trash species with terrible traits.
     
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  12. chuft Liturgist

    chuft
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    Can you make a trash subspecies of your own species for export? Or do they automatically get citizen rights because they were originally your species so you can’t deport them?

    On another note, due to the overwhelming micro of last game, I am loathe this time to colonize/conquer a lot of worlds. How many worlds is good for playing tall? Should I pay attention to admin cap?
     
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  13. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    You can, but they'd get citizen rights due to being your species, and thus hard to deport.

    There is no such thing as "playing tall". As long as you are producing well-developed worlds that have a high ratio of productivity to sprawl, more is good, all is better. That's just a thing people tell themselves when they run out of conveniently expendable territory. The key is not to arbitrarily restrict yourself to a number of worlds or systems, but to not develop shitty planets: Planets filled with districts that have low productivity are bad as they increase sprawl without producing their worth in it. You don't want a bunch of Planet Thirdworldias, but if you can keep producing and developing high-quality productive worlds, you always want more of them.

    Nope. Not in the slightest. Just pretend it doesn't even exist.
     
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  14. chuft Liturgist

    chuft
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    I decided to do Syncretic Evolution with my new Xenophobes. It appears you can cheese the servile race by giving them malus traits that affect leaders, and using the offsets from that to buy good traits, with effectively no penalty, since they can't produce leaders anyway.
     
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  15. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    That's sort of how that civic is meant to be played. Why would a race that isn't going to make leaders need leader traits?
     
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  16. Gobblecock Arcane Zionist Agent

    Gobblecock
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    Great verisimilitude, though.
     
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  17. chuft Liturgist

    chuft
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    Is there any downside to building mining stations in the middle of unclaimed space to get a lock on exotic resources?

    I know it costs more influence, but it would cost just as much to build all the stations in between, plus alloys, sprawl, and upkeep.
     
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  18. Olinser Educated

    Olinser
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    Those are the only reasons, and you can ignore sprawl and upkeep.

    However, the problem lies in the fact that the amount of resources you actually get from any particular system aren't really worth it. Most of them only give 1. That's a single upgrade level of a single building. Not worth the cost unless you're gonna own the system anyway. Even ones that give 2 aren't really worth going that far out for.

    About the ONLY situation where its worth going more than a couple jumps from your border is Zro if you want Psionics or an L-Gate. Anything else pretty much isn't worth it if you aren't already conquering the system anyway.
     
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  19. Storyfag Arcane

    Storyfag
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    In general, you want as many systems as possible. You get 1 starbase per 10 systems owned, and starbases = naval capacity.
     
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  20. Space Satan Arcane

    Space Satan
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    I prefer to enclose my space in chokepoints. So I often beeline to chokepoints and place a bastion there.
     
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  21. lophiaspis Savant

    lophiaspis
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    This is going to end up as one of those "computer program shows racist bias" stories, isn't it. :lol:
     
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  22. thesheeep Arcane

    thesheeep
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    "Swedish developer pushes racist ideology in games"
     
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  23. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    Then, pat yourself for well roleplaying Africa nations in year 2015.
     
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  24. chuft Liturgist

    chuft
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    Someone help me understand this migration system. I have no Adeex in my empire. I have never seen them before. I have migration controls on by default. Yet somehow, the growing pop on one of my planets is...an Adeex.


    [​IMG]


    Is this just a bug or what?
     
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  25. Space Satan Arcane

    Space Satan
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    Do you have "refugees welcome" policy on? If yes then you are roleplaying Sweden. Someone is purging them and they are running away to your greener pastures
     
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