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Anime Streeto Fighta V: Vicious Vengeance Vodeville

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by pakoito, Jun 16, 2015.

  1. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    The only way to be a "good Ryu player" in SF V is to have almost unlimted patience and play an overwhelmengly defensive game which seeks to bait the opponent into making mistakes which your Ryu can then punish.

    A small buff to his fireball game was given in AE Update, i.e. Season 3, however:

    - (VT1 or VT2, either one) During either of his V-Triggers, Ryu Season 3's fireballs (Denjin Hadokens) are now two frames fasters than ever before, and the EX-versions are four frames faster than ever before.

    During VT1/VT2, Ryu's denjin hadokens are 42 frames in total (previously they were 44), and if it is an EX-Denjin Hadoken it is 40.

    They also increased the damage and stun done by Denjin Hadokens which actually means you can deal a fair amount of damage/stun with them now.

    Long story short SF V Ryu can now zone during V-Trigger, and they actually hurt. During VT1/VT2 you can throw a Denjin Hadoken and always have enough time to Shoryuken a jump, even if it's not EX-version.

    Outside of VT1/VT2 however the answer to good Ryu play? Play defensively, abuse his cross-up LK, rarely engage in neutral/footsies, and generally you will need to out-think, out-play and out-space your opponent in order to win.

    He is not, however, the worst character in current SFV AE meta: that dubious honor goes to Zeku who has the same problems Ryu has except he has even less reach with his normals, even less damage-burst potential and and an even slower walk-speed and a less reliable Reversal option than Ryu.

    Currently also 'below' Ryu in SFV AE meta:

    - Zeku (as mentioned)
    - Juri (some would say they're on the same tier though, and don't let Infil's use of Juri fool you into thinking she's good; people mostly simply don't know the Juri match-up + Infil is just that good)

    According to japanese players (namely Itabashi, Nemo, Fuudo and Mago) they made a recent tier chart and placed in Ken in the same tier as Ryu, along with Alex and Juri.

    The only character below Ryu/Ken/Alex/Juri? Zeku.

    Zeku is really bad right now.
     
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  2. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    Words are meaningless though, if you want to see how Ryu needs to be played in SFV look no further than the undisputed best Ryu that has been reigning online for months now.

    Behold the only GRAND MASTER ranked Ryu player... JustFog:



    Other notable Ryus are:

    - OtaniRyu (Master Ranked)
    - Sasaki (Master Ranked / Ultra Diamond: he goes up and down)

    The best tournament competing SFV Ryu is Abao, who recently in EVO JAPAN 2018 defeated F.Champ:

     
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  3. aweigh Arcane

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    BTW, Abao's Ryu used Ryu's new VT2 parry extremely effectively against F.Champ... shit was fucking delicious.

    All that said however, Abao still only placed 41st overall in EVO Japan 2018. Didn't even crack Top 32, and this is without a doubt the best tournament competing/playing Ryu player right now.

    JustFog reigns as the #1 Ryu online, and is the only Ryu player with the Grand Master rank, but he doesn't go out to tournaments. Abao does, however, and when you watch him play you will see that he is clearly the world's best Tournament Competing Ryu player... indisputably so.

    Abao is simply 100% rock-solid and is a wall of defense and he has a seemingless supply of patience. This man would probably be in every Top 8 of any tournament if he was using Akuma instead of Ryu...
     
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  4. Jason Liang Arcane

    Jason Liang
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    I saw some Evo Japan SFV coverage and I was wondering:

    Why is Bison now called Vega. What happened to Vega Vega?

    Who is Urine and why is he naked/ wearing a diaper.
     
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  5. pakoito Arcane

    pakoito
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    Boxer is called M.Bison in Japan. Clear reference to Mike Tyson. Claw is Balrog, and Dictator is Vega. To avoid being sued when moving the franchise to the west they decided to do a switcheroo between the three of them. Thus, in the west Boxer is Balrog, Claw is Vega, and Dictator is M.Bison. If you like to avoid confusion in international events you call them Boxer, Claw, and Dictator.

    In the Street Fighter lore there's like one guy who has many clones or something like that and all of one of them but one wears a diaper.

    Show Spoiler

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  6. TheHeroOfTime Arcane

    TheHeroOfTime
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  7. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    You can throw Abigail out of his VT2 during almost any point of its animation. You can even time it well enough to throw Abigail out of a moving VT2 dash.

    Besides throwing:

    - Ryu/Akuma/Sakura/Ken/Ed/etc's vertically-moving EX-Reversals, such as an EX-Shoryuken or the like, will clear Abigail's VT2 dash.

    - Cammy can simply horizontally "drill" right through Abigail's VT2 dash, no EX-bar expenditure required.

    - Chun-li can amusingly enough "heel-stomp" her way up and over Abigail if done fast enough.

    Either way, regardless of the fact that it is possible to avoid Abigail's VT2 dash, Abigail is currently indisputably "OP". Word on the grape-vine is he's getting hit soon with nerfs in an Abigail-specific update.
     
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  8. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    Personally speaking, though, I think MENAT is a much more dangerous online opponent than Abigail. Just go watch Infiltration's MENAT vs Daigo's GUILE in the recent EVO Japan 2018...

    Absolutely disgusting.
     
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  9. Colour Spray Educated

    Colour Spray
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    I think Menat will be strong because her v-trigger 2 seems to be like Rose's Ultra-2 in that it shuts down so many of your opponent's options, gives her more front and back mix-ups and threatens free damage. Her zoning seems stronger than Rose, too, who was already pretty beastly in that regard; although I'm less certain that's unwarranted, because there are far fewer characters in 4 who just get in for free. I was watching Storm_Kubo play against Angrybird yesterday and he was getting blown up by Akuma, so while I agree that the character is really swingy, overreacting with nerfs too early could end up just making the character completely irrelevant. Especially when characters winning or losing can be nothing more than a mix-up into stun in this game, regardless of who they are.

    I'm biased though, my character usually has pretty favourable match-ups against grapplers.
     
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  10. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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  11. Colour Spray Educated

    Colour Spray
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    Justfog is completely unflappable; really solid defence. Ryu kinda reminds me of Chun-Li from 4 in this. Your blocks have to be perfect because having to use an EX to get the other guy off you cuts you off from super, which is the one of the only ways both of those characters get big damage in. I'd be really surprised if M.Bison wasn't a dark horse this season, also; that walk speed buff is huge and he gets so much frame advantage from his normals. He's kinda like Akuma, in that he can just keep pressing buttons in your face and force you to deal with it or get trapped in a pressure loop.
     
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  12. vota DC Arbiter

    vota DC
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    Bison for the boxer make sense, but why they used the Tolkien fire demon name for a spanish clawman and a spanish name for a dictator with a spinning fire attack?
    Even the boxer deserves the name Vega more than the dictator, at least he lives in Las Vegas.
     
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  13. Jason Liang Arcane

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    Watched most of the EVO Top 8. Infiltration won quite convincingly with Juri, no? Abigail seems a lot more dangerous than Zangief (why the fuck does a spinning piledriver do like... 20% damage only?), but SF's gameplay has always been biased towards shotos and zoners. (Unlike KoF, where a grappler anchor won the EVO Championships last year) Why nerf a fairly viable grappler?

    Menat seems like a cheesey character that will beat you unless you're accustomed to playing her, same with Rashid. Like when Infiltration played Juri, I could tell that was skill. But when he's playing Menat, it doesn't seem like he needed to use much skill.
     
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  14. Colour Spray Educated

    Colour Spray
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    There was at least two other really good players using Menat in this tournament, Go1 and Sako, and they both went out far earlier. Infiltration has been putting in a lot of time to make Menat as difficult to deal with as possible, and it shows. Although, sfv in general makes heavy pokes represent so much potential damage, so maybe the character has her share of cheese. She's certainly not as bad as Sagat was in the release version of sfiv; just because the dearth of invincible reversals makes it much harder to get back to neutral, and which is why Rashid gives this type of character fits, even if it's unusual to be able to convert to so much damage on a counter-hit, and you would assume this would favour a character with such a strong neutral game.

    Funnily enough, everybody was expecting that Kolin would be the break-out character.
     
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  15. aweigh Arcane

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    Jason Liang

    i definitely disagree with menat being less broken than vanilla sf4 sagat, but otherwise the rest of your post is accurate.

    crush-counters, (what you refer to with 'heavy pokes' comment), is the #1 cancerous thing about sfV and it is why its footsies and neutral game is so hobbled and lopsided, especially when compared to the elegant footsie battles one could witness in usf4.

    edit: more specifically crush-counter and the unique PRIORITY SYSTEM they are a part of in sf V.

    the sf V 'priority system' is completely new is why, for example, a standing heavy normal will "crush counter" a sweeping medium or light low-poke whereas traditionally it has always been the other way around in any other SF or any other fighting game.

    this is why you see, for example, a Urien player mashing standing HP fishing for a crush-counter... because the Urien player knows that thanks to SF V's PRIORITY SYSTEM, that Urien mashing a standing HP will out-footsie 90% of his opponents buttons.
     
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  16. pakoito Arcane

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    I barely watch SFV, I cannot have a good opinion here. I didn't even watch the GF, just Diego v Infiltration.
     
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  17. TheHeroOfTime Arcane

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    The normal priority system that the game currently has is the same that was present in Street fighter 3: Third strike. Is a system created to avoid lp/lk mashing to get out from pressure situations, and encourages the study and use of frame traps and stuff like that.



    There's more controversial things in SFV than this. Like how free jumping attacks are, the nerf of dragonpunches in season 2 (Losing their I-frames in startup in their normal versions) and the anti air jabs.
     
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  18. Jason Liang Arcane

    Jason Liang
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    I'm not an expert on SF either, but I do have a question, why does it seem so difficult to play defensively in SFV? During Daigo vs Zangief, Daigo's Guile would punch Zangief's Zangief in the face with a straight jab and the commentary called it a "guard breaker" or something? So characters have non-throw moves that can't be blocked at all? How is Zangief supposed to win that match up then? Zangief must get close and as soon as he gets close Guile can smack him with the "guard breaker."

    I get that SFV isn't combo-based fighting, but it seems the general problem is that there's too much emphasis on un-defendable/ difficult to defend moves, especially moves that some characters can't defend at all.
     
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  19. aweigh Arcane

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    Jason Liang
    why is it so hard to play defensively in sf5?

    honest answer is: capcom wanted to make the game faster, flashier and 'punchier' than sf4 so that it would look more appealing when viewed by non-fighting game aficionados during eSport events.

    there are a ton of technical reasons why, and i outlined a few in previous posts breaking down sf5's style of play, and the video of the priority system posted above further showcases the design philsophy by the design team to have (in theory) matches become much less about 'set play' and 'knockdown vortex' (i.e. SF4 meta-game) and more about what is simplified as "rushdown" play.

    the fact that it has a huge buffered input delay, as i mentined in a previous post when we were talking about how sf5 is so 'slow', also makes it much, much harder to play Defensively specifically because it is much harder to play in a "Reactionary Style", i.e. literally harder to react in time to your opponent's bullshit be it a jump-in from them or be it them spamming one f their heavy pokes.

    I assume you've also noticed SF5, in general, everything does a lot more damage-per-hit, right? that also has to do with it.

    it is simply a better risk/reward ratio to attempt to jump at you 5 times in a row, because if even if you anti-air me 4 of thse 5 times then the 1 time i manage to land a jump-in combo on you will allow me to inflict 45-55% damage, sometimes more.

    simply put: thoughtless offense nets a bigger reward than inscrutable defense in sf5.
     
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  20. Jason Liang Arcane

    Jason Liang
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    For aweigh:
    [​IMG]
    Will Murai
     
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  21. Valestein Arcane Patron

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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy


    He comes out on the 20th.
     
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  22. aweigh Arcane

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    ugh.....

    last thing sf5 needed was blanka, but whatever. I imagine online ranked is gonna be chock full of blankas for at least 1 or 2 months after his release.
     
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  23. pakoito Arcane

    pakoito
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    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Jason Liang Arcane

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    green pikachu
     
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  25. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    pakoito Great Deceiver Jason Liang TheHeroOfTime Colour Spray sspray vota DC

    Seboist

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Video no.1 showcases the absolute all-around best RYU PLAYER I have personally had the pleasure of makig friends with via SF5 / Steam Friends; yes he absolutely destroys and obliterates me every Battle Lounge session but I come out of those sessions much wiser, plus he is giving great advice:



    Video no.2 is a clip from another of our matches this time the entire match. Pay close attention to the 2nd round where Ponchuffy demonstrates that while it is very much so a skewed risk and reward ratio governing Projectile Zoning in SF5; here (and in many other of his replays online) he demonstrates simply: shut the fuck up cos Ryus chuckig plasma. Beech.



    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The following two videos are simply short footage clips I captured showing me:

    a) Practising a corner combo utilizing the new Donkey Kick given to Ryu; if you knock someone into a corner with a STANDARD Donkey Kick, no EX then you immediately do an OVERHEAD with Ryu and it will hit the opponent so meaty itll be juicy



    b) Practising or rather more specifically coming up with new frame-traps and meaty strigs for both of the new RESETS given to Ryu in season 3 of SF 5: the reset given with the WALL BOUNCE from his ne DONKEY KICK in EX and also another smaller reset that is new with Ryu V-TRIGGER 2 (two) after you PARRY an enemy

     
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