Suggestions, Bugs, and Praise! (kind of long)

[Boogie With Stu]

Well, I've played through most of the demo of Prelude and let me preface this by saying I really enjoyed it overall. It looks to have great potential beyond what I've played so I will be making a purchase. From what I've read this was developed by two people? How long did it take to get it to the state it is in? I'm pretty amazed. I love the combat. Turn based is the way to go. The quests I've completed were well done. I don't recall any fed-ex type quests and the plot is intriguing (aren't they always when there has been a murder <g>). While the graphics are certainly not AAA title quality, they are very well done considering the low-poly count. The character models must only have about 100 or 150 polys and they look nice. I find it pleasing when I equip some new armor and the character model displays this. The music was OK. It is different than the usual lute type found in most rpgs and I kept it on so far. I wish I could turn it down just a bit more (I have it on 1, but it is still a bit too distracting). The objects found in houses are detailed and look well done. The in game help is very handy. Love it. I think the guys did a fantastic job overall and they will get my 25 bucks.

Now to the suggestions, feedback, and minor griping (I only gripe when I like the game).

The mouse interface needs some work. Half the time I am fighting to get the mouse pointer on the right spot to pick anything up. After combat I hold down the alt key and all the items are listed in one big blob. It would be nice to have the names spread out (like Diablo does) in order to make it easier to pick up just the things I want. Many times when I try to pick up an item the whole party walks on over and stands on what I need so I have to move them away then try the click again - frustrating. Thank God I can at least hold down the alt key or I would never be able to grab anything! Also, when the alt key is down how about making any movement (other then to move over to an object when you pick it up) impossible. Any while we're at it maybe make mousing over one of your group do nothing while the alt key is down as I seem to highlight them a lot when they are standing over their loot.

A small onscreen map would sure be great. Something like Divine Divinity has. I get lost easily in any rpg unless I have a minimap on the screen to keep me oriented. Add the option to turn it on or off (by pressing M or whatnot).

Ack! Let me assign keys! I hate where the screen rotation keys are located and would much rather define the keyboard to suit myself. Also, are there hot-keys for attacks? It would be nice to just press a few keys for the different attacks.

And keep the last target selected. When it is a characters turn the default target is the last one they had attacked so all I need to do is press one of the hot-keys for attacking (you are adding those, right? <g>). I would love to just use the tab key to cycle through the enemies in order to change my target. In addition to the menu that pops up when attacking it would be nice to have information appear above the head of the selected target. I like the health vial that is already there, but I would like to see my attack options and the AP cost, the AP cost to move to the target, and (for us detail oriented folks) my chance to hit for each attack type.

When I have a character screen up I can't seem to figure out how to switch to another character without closing it and right-clicking on a different portrait. Maybe some arrow icons that let me cycle through the characters when I am adjusting skills or equipping.

I can equip multiple items in one slot!!!??? My thief is wearing 3 gloves! Is one a condom? I also equipped two bows in one hand.

I would love to have my party member block the shots of my archers. Right now the arrows go right through my character if he is between my bow wielder and the enemy. I think the arrows should damage the character in the way which would make me have to position my group a bit better.

The journal could be so much better. Maybe add bookmarks that correspond to each town and each quest is placed in the proper section by town. Also, scratch through a quest when completed or have a completed section of the journal and move the finished quests there. My biggest gripe with rpgs has always been the damn journal organization.

Are the arrows on the interface screen necessary? I never used them as I always scrolled with the mouse. I think you could widen the text area (or add a minimap!!!) in this area. Also, can I scroll the screen with the keyboard? Those arrow keys on my keyboard look like the perfect match for some scrolling code.

Had a few bugs - but what can you do when you don't have the QA of Electronic Arts at your disposal? Let's see...the old man in Kellan wanted me to fix his fence and all I could answer was No. He still said, "Then go do it!" I crash to desktop at least once every two hours. I'm running Win2K/GeForce3/Athlon rig with DX 8.1b. Sometimes right before a battle all the textures start flickering and I know I will see my desktop in a few seconds. Also, I had the strangest bug I've seen in a game. When I started up the game and loaded a save the top half of the screen had corrupt graphics while the bottom half kept repeating the saved game selection I had picked. Another words, the bottom half acted like a movie of me clicking the load selection then the saved game button. At first I thought, "Oh God, I have a trojan on my system!". Then I realized it was some weird loop in the game.

Well, that's all I can think of off the top of my head - I'll be back once I purchase and play more. Again, great game and I am purchasing it. I hope you guys keep making improvements and more games like this. It seems the game companies have forgotten what is fun about an rpg and they churn out the same things all the time (except Black Isle, of course).

-Dan

 

[crpgnut]

Boogie with Stu, where have I seen you before? Are you a usenet junkie? If not, you must have been on the Morrowind forums or their dalnet channel. How did you hear about Prelude? I heard about it on the newsgroups I think. If you don't have the 1.41 patch make sure to grab it. It cleared up a couple of bugs for me. If you have a creative labs soundcard you might check task manager and make sure you don't have a file called cthelper.exe running. It causes several crashes for me and disabling it doesn't seem to hurt anything. Hotkeys and tabbing between monsters is a great idea, I've mentioned it to Mat but the more the merrier. This is a really nice game when you consider how few people worked on it. It looks better than almost all of the other shareware titles.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Well, I've played through most of the demo of Prelude and let me preface this by saying I really enjoyed it overall. It looks to have great potential beyond what I've played so I will be making a purchase. From what I've read this was developed by two people?

I think five is the lucky number. Mat Williams and CP are the ones who visit the forums the most though.

I love the combat. Turn based is the way to go.

I agree. I really like the options in this system.

The quests I've completed were well done. I don't recall any fed-ex type quests

Actually, there are a few in the game. It's not that bad though, considering you can go fetch the object, launch the world map right there, and zip to the place what you're taking as to go.

and the plot is intriguing (aren't they always when there has been a murder <g>).

Actually, there's multiple main plotlines in this game, so there's not just the one.

The objects found in houses are detailed and look well done.

Wait until you get to The Citadel, it's probably the nicest town in terms of artwork.

The mouse interface needs some work. Half the time I am fighting to get the mouse pointer on the right spot to pick anything up.

Yeah, I have to shake the mouse over things after I pick something up. That could stand to be fixed.

After combat I hold down the alt key and all the items are listed in one big blob. It would be nice to have the names spread out (like Diablo does) in order to make it easier to pick up just the things I want.

Actually, Prince of Qin has a much nicer ALT-Key system for objects. When you hit ALT, everything on the ground is listed in a column on the left hand side of the screen, allowing you to select what you want to pick up from the list. If the items list worked like that and it still labelled everything else normally, that'd be much nicer.

Many times when I try to pick up an item the whole party walks on over and stands on what I need so I have to move them away then try the click again - frustrating. Thank God I can at least hold down the alt key or I would never be able to grab anything!

Odd, I rarely use the alt key in PtD. I know the items that an enemy drops are always at their feet, so I just go by that.

A small onscreen map would sure be great. Something like Divine Divinity has. I get lost easily in any rpg unless I have a minimap on the screen to keep me oriented. Add the option to turn it on or off (by pressing M or whatnot).

Something like this would be VERY handy, especially for the sewers in the Citadel and the Barrier.

And keep the last target selected. When it is a characters turn the default target is the last one they had attacked so all I need to do is press one of the hot-keys for attacking (you are adding those, right? <g>). I would love to just use the tab key to cycle through the enemies in order to change my target.

This would only work in cases where there are only a couple of enemies, and you're not spread out. If you're all clustered around an enemy, this would be handy. However, later in the game, I'm rarely clustered up. I have two guys fighting one place, two fighting several squares away, and two more in another spot. Keeping the monster that was last hit targetted would make tactics like that a major pain in the ass.

In addition to the menu that pops up when attacking it would be nice to have information appear above the head of the selected target. I like the health vial that is already there, but I would like to see my attack options and the AP cost, the AP cost to move to the target, and (for us detail oriented folks) my chance to hit for each attack type.

Each square requires 2AP to move through and there's a highlighted overlay on the ground telling you how far you can go. AP costs are listed on attack options though and have been since the beginning. If you hold your mouse over something, it also displays information about what you're holding the pointer over.

When I have a character screen up I can't seem to figure out how to switch to another character without closing it and right-clicking on a different portrait. Maybe some arrow icons that let me cycle through the characters when I am adjusting skills or equipping.

Aren't those arrow keys near the name of the person? I know the shopping interface works like that. Also, you don't have to close that character interface to right-click a portrait to open a new one.

I can equip multiple items in one slot!!!??? My thief is wearing 3 gloves! Is one a condom? I also equipped two bows in one hand.

That's a bug, but it's better than the old. Basically, it assumes you have enough sense not to move a stack on to an armor or weapon slot.

I would love to have my party member block the shots of my archers. Right now the arrows go right through my character if he is between my bow wielder and the enemy. I think the arrows should damage the character in the way which would make me have to position my group a bit better.

Melee with long weapons does this too. I'm not sure making this would improve the game much, though. There are a number of places later on where you'll be fighting something in a tight space where you're going to need being able to shoot or spear through a square with someone already in it.

The journal could be so much better. Maybe add bookmarks that correspond to each town and each quest is placed in the proper section by town. Also, scratch through a quest when completed or have a completed section of the journal and move the finished quests there. My biggest gripe with rpgs has always been the damn journal organization.

Agreed here. Markers by town would be a hell of a nice addition and go a long way towards making the journal useful.

Are the arrows on the interface screen necessary? I never used them as I always scrolled with the mouse. I think you could widen the text area (or add a minimap!!!) in this area. Also, can I scroll the screen with the keyboard? Those arrow keys on my keyboard look like the perfect match for some scrolling code.

I think using a smaller font in the text box would be nice as well.

Well, that's all I can think of off the top of my head - I'll be back once I purchase and play more. Again, great game and I am purchasing it. I hope you guys keep making improvements and more games like this.

I agree here.. There's nothing bad about more Prelude to Darkness.

It seems the game companies have forgotten what is fun about an rpg and they churn out the same things all the time (except Black Isle, of course).

You mean the same BlackIsle that's churned out nothing but Infinity Engine games for the last four years?

 

[Vault Dweller]

This is not to contradict with the original poster but to add my 2 cents about the game, especially for people who still not sure about buying it. In a word, it's awesome. I am a huge fan of RPGs, but lately there were too many mass-market games like NWN, DS, etc. The word 'turn-based' has become lately all but extinct being replaced by 'real-time fast-paced action RPG'. Even my beloved Black Isle, a name once associated with Fallout and Torment, is busy milking D&D. I almost missed this game, it got my attention after Saint-P mentioned it in the Codex picks, but once I started playing, I could not stop. I called in sick for 2 days just to play some more.

I love everything about this game. The story is good so far, the quests are very well thought through. Very logical. Huge improvment over the standard fed-ex, loot the dungeon, or kill something evil. The graphic is good too, at least for me. If I want to see a beatiful but otherwise empty game I'll play Morrowind. The graphics are much better then that of Arcanium if you ask me. And speaking of which, this is what Arcanium should have been like, with all the respect to Tim Cain of course.

I like the combat system. It makes a lot of sense not to receive exp points, but a chance to raise the actual skills. Loots from bandits is a good reward by itself. I like the skill system, the skills themselves, the way I was actually able to use most of them (I once created a char with a good speech for F:T, he-he). Comparing to Morrowind' skill system that does not give you any clue about you stats besides still being less then 100, Prelude handles it very well.

I especially like the choices. Now i'm in position to choose a faction to vote for. There is no good, bad, and ugly choice here. In fact, I had to think about whom to pick, about thir agenda, about the potential outcome and whether or not it would solve the valley's problems. Similar quest in Fallout 2 (who will control the Wanamingo mine) did not present enough info to really think/care about it. Well, may be it's just me.,

Granted, there are bugs, there are always bugs. There are occasional dialogue typos, desktop crashes, etc. But if there is a case where you should give people a break, it's here. Prelude definitely put Zero-Sum on my map and I sincerely hope that there is more where this game come from.

 

[Boogie With Stu]

Boogie with Stu, where have I seen you before? Are you a Usenet junkie? If not, you must have been on the Morrowind forums or their dalnet channel. How did you hear about Prelude? I heard about it on the newsgroups

I am a Usenet junkie and lurk in csipgr. But my name comes from a song by the greatest band ever (Please God! Let there be a reunion concert this year!)
I heard about this game on Usenet when Matt (I think?) posted. Downloaded the demo a while ago but just got around to playing it.


I hope all of you realize I was praising the game. I think it is fantastic and just purchased it (don't blow my 25 bucks on beer, zero sum - unless it is import). I was just giving some constructive criticism. I certainly did not mean my post to have any negative connotation. As to my desktop crashes, well I am also a developer and usually the sole tester for the software libraries we sell so I completely understand how different OS'es and configs can cause strange problems not caught during the test phase. And I have complete respect for Zero Sum since I know how hard it is to complete a game (I'm still working on my core rendering classes).

This would only work in cases where there are only a couple of enemies, and you're not spread out. If you're all clustered around an enemy, this would be handy. However, later in the game, I'm rarely clustered up. I have two guys fighting one place, two fighting several squares away, and two more in another spot. Keeping the monster that was last hit targetted would make tactics like that a major pain in the ass.

I meant the last selected target for each individual character. That way when my (beautiful but deadly) fighter, Rebecca, has her round come up again, the last target she was fighting is already selected. Then I can just hit the proper attack key. And when my next character has their round the last target they selected is already targeted and combat goes a bit quicker.

This is a really nice game when you consider how few people worked on it. It looks better than almost all of the other shareware titles.

I agree! I am a graphics whore, but this is the first shareware RPG I actually think has decent graphics. They did a great job!

You mean the same BlackIsle that's churned out nothing but Infinity Engine games for the last four years?

But they made Planescape: Torment!!!

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I meant the last selected target for each individual character. That way when my (beautiful but deadly) fighter, Rebecca, has her round come up again, the last target she was fighting is already selected. Then I can just hit the proper attack key. And when my next character has their round the last target they selected is already targeted and combat goes a bit quicker.

So.. Basically.. You want to reduce Prelude to Darkness's wonderful option filled combat system to.. Just hitting one key over and over and over again until it's over?

But they made Planescape: Torment!!!

And since then? Face it, BIS is one of those companies that keeps making the same thing over and over again. The only time they tried to make something remotely new or original, it took them 2.5 years, lots of money, and nothing to show for it.

I'm hoping Jefferson will be something new and interesting, though. I like the cut of JE Sawyer's gib. I won't be shocked if it's BG3 or IWD3 though, since they've only got the D&D license so long as they make either an IWD game or a BG game in the next two years.

Friggin' shame WotC didn't limit them to Dark Sun or Planescape instead.

 

[Boogie With Stu]

So.. Basically.. You want to reduce Prelude to Darkness's wonderful option filled combat system to.. Just hitting one key over and over and over again until it's over?

No, not at all. I would just like to be able to complete combat with just the keyboard. Have multiple keys for the different attacks. Or I press "A" to bring up the Action menu and then can press the appropriate key or esc to close the menu. Example:
The round begins and my character, Fallen Saint Proverbius :wink: , has the first turn. I press tab to cycle through the targets until I select the one I want to slay. Now I press "A" to bring up the menu I normally get when I right-click on the target. While in this menu I can press the corresponding key for the action. I want to move towards the target so I press "M" (or whichever key is assigned to approach target) and my Fallen Saint Proverbious (FSP) sidles up to the target. Now we continue the round until it is FSP's move again. I already have the target set since I tabbed to it for this particualr character earlier. I just press "A" to bring up the menu. Now I want to make a quick attack so I press "Q". FSP then drops his sword on his foot and suffers 10 hp damage :D .

So what I am saying is leave the combat the way it is, but make it easily accessable for using the keyboard rather than all with the mouse. I love the combat and would not want it changed - just the combat interface tweaked to use the keyboard as well as the mouse. Trust me, I love turn based combat and would love to have it play out with the tactics of a chess match as long as the interface was designed to allow people comfortable with the system to use hot-keys.

And since then? Face it, BIS is one of those companies that keeps making the same thing over and over again. The only time they tried to make something remotely new or original, it took them 2.5 years, lots of money, and nothing to show for it.

They had some brownish looking screenshots to show for it. :D

 

[thathmew]

I'm going to be experimenting with some key combos in the nedxt version, we'll see what I come up with, the tabbing between targets is definitely a possibility as is starting a character with their last target selected, we'll see. Lots of great suggestions though.
-mat

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

The round begins and my character, Fallen Saint Proverbius :wink: , has the first turn. I press tab to cycle through the targets until I select the one I want to slay. Now I press "A" to bring up the menu I normally get when I right-click on the target. While in this menu I can press the corresponding key for the action. I want to move towards the target so I press "M" (or whichever key is assigned to approach target) and my Fallen Saint Proverbious (FSP) sidles up to the target. Now we continue the round until it is FSP's move again. I already have the target set since I tabbed to it for this particualr character earlier. I just press "A" to bring up the menu. Now I want to make a quick attack so I press "Q". FSP then drops his sword on his foot and suffers 10 hp damage :D

Oh, I gotcha. Everything in the game, but a more Windows-if-your-mouse-quits-working style thing. Avernum series does keyboard play fairly well, but it's no where near as complex a combat system as Prelude to Darkness.

About the only problem I would see with this is if it gets like Wizardry 8 did with the "Use last attack" thing or Reach for the Stars(the recent one) did with it's ability to automate most things. It eventually got incredibly dull to play because once you did a set up of events, it just became way too passive.

They had some brownish looking screenshots to show for it. :D

Don't forget the foot think table, which has been a running gag since last year. :D