Decline Sword Coast Legends Pre-Release Thread

[Alchemist]

I don't think it's a conspiracy - but the problem is Hasbro sees D&D as a brand to be exploited for maximum profit, fidelity to the PnP rules be damned. And likewise, forget about any catering to the hardcore D&D PnP audience with the video game versions. I think some of the team at WotC did a good job with 5E, the PnP version. But the corporate bean-counter types in the operation (at Hasbro) don't care about that as much - it's such a tiny niche compared to the bigger market they perceive possible with video games. That's why this shit gets streamlined and dumbed down - so they can reel in the maximum amount of gamers. Lowest common denominator and all that.

As long as Hasbro owns D&D it's going to be like this, lets face it.

 

[Kem0sabe]

The problem is that the game is worse than any semi funded rpg released in the last decade, its an absolute abomination, i dont think even Hasbro or WotC would be dumfuck enough to allow this.

If i had payed for this, i would be tracking down the developers addresses so i could drown them to holy spirit, to cleanse this stain from the fabric of the universe.

 

[Telengard]

I don't think it's a conspiracy - but the problem is Hasbro sees D&D as a brand to be exploited for maximum profit, fidelity to the PnP rules be damned. And likewise, forget about any catering to the hardcore D&D PnP audience with the video game versions. I think some of the team at WotC did a good job with 5E, the PnP version. But the corporate bean-counter types in the operation (at Hasbro) don't care about that as much - it's such a tiny niche compared to the bigger market they perceive possible with video games. That's why this shit gets streamlined and dumbed down - so they can reel in the maximum amount of gamers. Lowest common denominator and all that.

As long as Hasbro owns D&D it's going to be like this, lets face it.

That's all true, but with Hasbro it's one step worse. Hasbro neither understands nor cares about d&d. They bought the license for the card game, and immediately split the company in twain, making it very clear what they cared about. D&D makes money still, so they still support it, sort of, but it could go fall in a lake for all they care. It's not a 100 mil maker, so as they deem it, it's not worth their time nor energy.

If they were developing this to care for the license, it wouldn't have been shipped out to a no-name who bought the license. It would have been done in close conjunction with one of the mid or big names. And most definitively, game production would not have started before pnp 5e was in full production. An rpg video game is in production for more than a couple of years, remember. And so the very rules they would make the game by wouldn't have been fully cooked when they started making SCL.

 

[dragonul09]

It's not that bad,the first quests that you encounter are pretty interesting and it feels like they put a lot of work in them.I especially love the quest where i have to look for mushrooms and hear me out here,the npc told me that i only had to bring just one mushroom back, but now comes to cool part...i brought 3 instead of one 1,what do you have to say now huh? C&C bitch!

You guys should stop bitching and pick more motherfucking mushrooms.

 

[Night Goat]

Neither is a competing product though.

We might not see it that way, but think of it from the point of view of the suitists at Hasbro - both are things nerds do with other nerds in their free time, but one of them has players throwing hundreds or thousands of dollars a year into it, and the other has most players spending $30 once. You don't even want a chance of people choosing the latter over the former.

 

[DavidBVal]

The problem is generic management guys that were hired because their "ideas" increased sales in Colgate or MacDonalds, can't understand the very unique nature of D&D. The franchise is getting the same treatment as any other "toy".

 

[Telengard]

As the ex-vp from WotC said - d&d was given a chance to make itself into a 100 mil vehicle. It failed, so now it's a minor product in their catalog, while the card game already was a major.

But even just looking at them as an investment vehicle... From a suit's perspective, there's lots of nerds who like both pnp and the card game. Suits love those people, since they're easy to please. If the suits are only going to invest in either pnp or cards in a particular year, those fans will be pleased no matter which the company chooses.

 

[prodigydancer]

d&d was given a chance

Was it? They killed Planescape and matter-of-fact killed all other D&D settings except FR. 3E was so-so and 4E was trash. There hasn't been a decent D&D videogame since MotB and there hasn't been a non-FR D&D videogame in 15 years.

And now we get... this. Everyone laughs and I laugh too, but I look back and I can't help feeling sad a little. Poor D&D. So much time, effort and creative thought now lie utterly wasted...

 

[Bubbles]

there hasn't been a non-FR D&D videogame in 15 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_&_Dragons:_Dragonshard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Temple_of_Elemental_Evil_(video_game)

 

[Telengard]

Was it? They killed Planescape and matter-of-fact killed all other D&D settings except FR. 3E was so-so and 4E was trash. There hasn't been a decent D&D videogame since MotB and there hasn't been a non-FR D&D videogame in 15 years.

And now we get... this. Everyone laughs and I laugh too, but I look back and I can't help feeling sad a little. Poor D&D. So much time, effort and creative thought now lie utterly wasted...

From a Codexian perspective, having Planescape and other varied setting is the way to go. From an investment perspective, that's almost as shit a direction as it is possible to take. Unusual settings are huge expense, low return investments. There's an initial bright burst of purchases, but sales soon dwindle to nothing unless it's supported by a bunch of other low return investments, such as modules. Since those are, in turn, chancy investments, the whole thing quickly becomes top-heavy as more is introduced to try to keep the setting alive. Eventually ending in a dark pit of red. (Especially with the 10s of thousands of dollars now sunk into artwork for a single book.)

What's more, crpgs are also huge investment, low return affairs, but require even more investment.

To this date, there are only two types of rpgs that are proven long-term investment successes: Lord of the Rings lookalikes and Star Wars/Star Trek lookalikes. There is no other way to even pretend to be looking at 100 million.

 

[Bubbles]

To this date, there are only two types of rpgs that are proven long-term investment successes: Lord of the Rings lookalikes and Star Wars/Star Trek lookalikes. There is no other way to even pretend to be looking at 100 million.

http://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/377160/

 

[Telengard]

Must we get into the debate about what is an RPG? That would be silly.

EDIT: More to the point, WotC could make lots of money by making d&d games that have nothing to do with d&d or rpgs. IE the direction SCL and Bethesda have both taken. It works, it's proven, SCL may have messed this one up by not changing tacks when Steam Refunds became a thing, but it doesn't change the fact that the d&d is a 25-40 million license, and turning it into a 100 mil just isn't going to happen. Not without making it over into something it isn't.

 

[Immortal]

The problem isn't FR - The problem is shit games.
Nobody gives a fuck about Wheel of Dragonloft.. Leave Forgotten Realms Alone!

Spoiler

Just kidding - Ravenloft is awesome.

 

[Shin]

Yeah, I guess the 96 pages for such a shit game is kinda representative for how much we want to see a good official licensed AD&D cRPG developed. I pray to baby jesus that they'll eventually have the sense to do some market research, figure out who their (cRPG) audience is and choose an appropriate developer to make the damn thing (larian, inXile, obsidian, etc)

heck I wouldn't be against a good non-cRPG/D&D game set in the Forgotten Realms.Maybe a telltale adventure game type thing would be nice or even just a good dark soul-esque console type action/exploring game could be nice (if they so desperately want to be 'mainstream')

 

[prodigydancer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_&_Dragons:_Dragonshard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Temple_of_Elemental_Evil_(video_game)

Yeah, I exaggerated. 10 years of nothing and 5 of almost nothing. ToEE was OK but Dragonshard was just a Warcraft 3 clone, not a CRPG. And where's Ravenloft? Dragonlance? Dark Sun? And then they say D&D isn't as big as they want it to be.

 

[pippin]

I think Wizards of the Coast won't allow any d&d games using outdated editions, and most of the "weird" settings, including Planescape, are tied to older editions, so yeah.

Dragonshard was more than a W3 clone, in fact it was more of a Battle Realms derivative with innovative touches (like going down to dungeons, which wasn't really explored in rts games).

 

[Telengard]

If the Dragonlance film had been a success, there probably would have been a revival of that, toot sweet. But it was a flop, and that world's never been a good earner outside of its ancient core books, so that one's to the back of the bus. Ravenloft and Dark Sun will probably see re-releases yet again this gen (since WotC rarely makes anything new, kind of like Nintendo), but those two worlds always have to wait for their more lucrative elder brothers to be produced first. And Planescape is the iffy stepchild that would 10 to 1 be outsourced if it ever officially got made again. (So might Dark Sun and Ravenloft, for that matter, but nowhere near as likely.)

As for crpgs set in those other worlds, what 3rd party company would want to take on the cost of the current d&d license, suffer weaker sales with a weird setting and the lack of Drizzt porn, spend millions on current graphics for fanbois to masturbate over, endure constant correction "notes" from Hasbro, and then try to eke out a profit on whatever was left?

No one.

Edit: Well, maybe Obsidian.

 

[Excidium II]

Can't say I'm exactly missing D&D CRPGs. Specially considering what we're likely to get even in the best of cases.

 

[Excidium II]

However I wouldn't mind something in the spirit of the old game or the more alternative settings. Just not carying the D&D name or any related IPs as that p. much guarantees lowest common denominator shit like SCL.

 

[ArchAngel]

If the Dragonlance film had been a success, there probably would have been a revival of that, toot sweet. But it was a flop, and that world's never been a good earner outside of its ancient core books, so that one's to the back of the bus. Ravenloft and Dark Sun will probably see re-releases yet again this gen (since WotC rarely makes anything new, kind of like Nintendo), but those two worlds always have to wait for their more lucrative elder brothers to be produced first. And Planescape is the iffy stepchild that would 10 to 1 be outsourced if it ever officially got made again. (So might Dark Sun and Ravenloft, for that matter, but nowhere near as likely.)

As for crpgs set in those other worlds, what 3rd party company would want to take on the cost of the current d&d license, suffer weaker sales with a weird setting and the lack of Drizzt porn, spend millions on current graphics for fanbois to masturbate over, endure constant correction "notes" from Hasbro, and then try to eke out a profit on whatever was left?

No one.

Edit: Well, maybe Obsidian.

There is a Forgotten Realms movie in the works.

 

[Roguey]

I think Wizards of the Coast won't allow any d&d games using outdated editions, and most of the "weird" settings, including Planescape, are tied to older editions, so yeah.

After the crowdfunding success of Tides of Numenera, they said they were open to letting someone use the Planescape setting,

 

[dragonul09]

I just realised that the game has only one fucking save slot,one....are those fucking people retarded?And you can't start a game with the same champion without your saving files being erased,what the fuck...

It may add to the difficulty and crap like that, but if you encounter a game breaking bug,you are fucked beyond hope, so enjoy starting again...

Stupid motherfuckers

 

[Zdzisiu]

I just realised that the game has only one fucking save slot,one....are those fucking people retarded?And you can't start a game with the same champion without your saving files being erased,what the fuck...

It may add to the difficulty and crap like that, but if you encounter a game breaking bug,you are fucked beyond hope, so enjoy starting again...

Stupid motherfuckers

Hey, it increases the replayability if you have to start over every time!

 

[Bonerbill]

Yeah, I exaggerated. 10 years of nothing and 5 of almost nothing. ToEE was OK but Dragonshard was just a Warcraft 3 clone, not a CRPG. And where's Ravenloft? Dragonlance? Dark Sun? And then they say D&D isn't as big as they want it to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_&_Dragons_Online

Not a cRPG, but an RPG nevertheless. It's also set in one of the coolest DnD settings (Eberron).

 

[prodigydancer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_&_Dragons_Online
Not a cRPG, but an RPG nevertheless. It's also set in one of the coolest DnD settings (Eberron).

And it's about as close to D&D ruleset as SCL itself.

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BTW, I hope you people realize that we just can't win here. If SCL is a success (unlikely), WotC will think that MMO-like combat with cooldowns is the way to go, at least for CRPGs. And if it's a failure, they'll play it safe and it'll be quite some time before we see another D&D-based game. Worst case: Beamdog won't even be allowed to release Siege of Dragonspear.