Vapourware System Shock 3 by OtherSide Entertainment - taken over by Tencent!

[Katana1000S]

This is good honest feedback already ... I came in to ask just what MasterLobar had already asked ... was this game more than half way completed a long time ago, we all knew it was a lie.

Just goes to show how corrupt some game studios are these days they will spout pure lies at the drop of a hat, from the beginning like Underworld Ascendant to SS3 too ... half way finished my ass.

Anyone with any common sense whatsoever was NOT buying that pack of vile lies.

It made no sense whatsoever, but they made that outrageous lie anyway

Thank you Kin Corn Karn, you are are one very welcome whistle blower who sheds good light on this whole fiasco ... Thank you.

 

[Katana1000S]

If Spector has any balls, he'll come clean on this whole fiasco ... just because Warren Spector had talent once, does not mean he has it forever, all talent from all areas in life goes into decline with age, it's a well known concept, also the industry has moved on, Spector has rested on his laurels thinking he could spring back and throw out a masterpiece again as if it were baking a cake, he is so fucking wrong.

I do respect the guy, but he is so out of touch these days its beyond a joke.

These are different times, much different times ...

 

[MasterLobar]

Why did they spend money and manpower on this in the year UA was supposed to launch and while UA was in such a terrible shape?

Last year Boston had several people working on a new project.

 

[Roguey]

What with all this hate on Warren Spector? Except that he made some games two decades ago and now he's skilles hack who still thinks that he's real deal?

The truth about Spector is that he had some nice ideas and some stupid ideas, but he was mostly a loudmouth producer who was sometimes detrimental to the quality of his games (he did "I'm going to form two teams for this one game and have them compete against each other" twice even after it proved disastrous the first time)

 

[TheImplodingVoice]

Kin Corn Karn were you still there when Underworld Ascendant was released? What was the general opinion at OS Austin about the Ascendant disaster?

Warren kept promising us a play test to give Boston feedback, but for whatever reason it never happened, so most of us didn't play it until it launched.

We were horrified.

Not only was it a financial loss for the company, the damage to our reputation was irreversible even if Austin had nothing to do with it. When the news about Starbreeze came it cast a big shadow over our hopes to find a new publisher.

Given what a piece of shit it is. I'm still surprised Warren thought it was good to play at all. And then actually released it. No one probably ever play tested before launch.

 

[retinoid]

Why must Warren Spector be an old senile piece of garbage now? He had plenty of time to get this shit done in his prime, or at least get a real spiritual successor to SS2 and Deus Ex off the ground but instead he fucks around with Epic Mickey and Epic Mickey 2: Invisible War. I know Harvey Smith probably did most of the work in Deus Ex, but Spector at least has power as a producer to get the right people involved, although looking at Underworld: Ascendant maybe he has lost the plot in this regard too.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Why must Warren Spector be an old senile piece of garbage now?

Can't promise, but I don't think I'll ever make another game where you can kill virtual people at all.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

It's okay to kill space zombies though. Gotcha Warren.

 

[Katana1000S]

Warren is clearly senile now and this topic started just over 4 years ago ... its not going to happen, ever.

Lets move on please.

 

[Nano]

I know Harvey Smith probably did most of the work in Deus Ex

Harvey was one of the lead designers, the other was Robert White. Robert was the one in charge of DX's RPG elements. Harvey prefers non-RPG immersive sims which is why none of his games at Arkane are RPGs.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Warren isn't senile, he just lost touch with modern game development, as most of his old Origins/LGS pals evidently did as well.

 

[retinoid]

I know Harvey Smith probably did most of the work in Deus Ex

Harvey was one of the lead designers, the other was Robert White. Robert was the one in charge of DX's RPG elements. Harvey prefers non-RPG immersive sims which is why none of his games at Arkane are RPGs.

Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of that. Where is Robert White these days?

 

[Nano]

Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of that. Where is Robert White these days?

Robert worked in the industry until 2000. Robert returned to scientific research in astrophysics at Los Alamos National Laboratory. He is currently a senior scientist for the National Renewable Energy Lab.

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,392621/

 

[retinoid]

Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of that. Where is Robert White these days?

Robert worked in the industry until 2000. Robert returned to scientific research in astrophysics at Los Alamos National Laboratory. He is currently a senior scientist for the National Renewable Energy Lab.

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,392621/

That's pretty fucking rad. Reminds me of how a lot of the early Simpsons (golden age) and Futurama writers were Math/Physics majors. Would have been interesting to see him go further in the industry, but he left on a fucking high note that's for sure.

 

[taxalot]

When you go from wondering if the game is going to be good or not, to if the game is going to be released or not, you might as well close shop.

 

[LESS T_T]

Someone posted on ResetEra about recent layoffs and Linkedin updates: https://www.resetera.com/threads/possible-layoffs-at-otherside-austin-system-shock-3.159345/

Nothing new in the post but I imagine now the journalists will take notice of this and asking OSE comments, possibly prompting an official announcement.

 

[Katana1000S]

Yes ... I think something official as an announcement is well over due.

Nobody likes to be kept in the dark ... and every System Shock fan has been kept in the dark for quite some time now.

I fear its all a massive train wreck waiting to happen though

 

[MasterLobar]

Someone posted on ResetEra about recent layoffs and Linkedin updates: https://www.resetera.com/threads/possible-layoffs-at-otherside-austin-system-shock-3.159345/

Nothing new in the post but I imagine now the journalists will take notice of this and asking OSE comments, possibly prompting an official announcement.

Infinitron has been updating a threat about the layoffs on their official forum for months. It's one of the most-read threads there and is almost always among the top threads (because very few people are still posting there).

https://forums.otherside-e.com/t/layoffs-at-otherside/10096

I guess every journalist who is interested in the company should have noticed by now.

 

[Kin Corn Karn]

There's a lot of criticism of Warren here that I don't think is very fair. He was the most visible face of the team so I imagine it's natural to assign him blame, but if anything we needed more of his direct involvement. The team had a lot of strong personalities and he was mostly hands-off. In person he has a very gentle, kind, and humble demeanor. He had a good vision for the game, and perhaps some ambitions that were outside our reach, but I don't recall his involvement ever being corrosive.

The things that hurt us were:
Picking Unity over UE4.
Design being understaffed, and effective design leadership coming much too late.
Milestone tunnel vision. A lot of the work put into the milestone demos ended up getting thrown away.
The UA trainwreck.
Starbreeze pulling out due to bankruptcy.

Some things went right:
In spite of the technical difficulties with the engine, the staff at Unity were incredibly supportive and helpful. Some of the AAA improvements to Unity in the last couple years were born from the work they did with us.
Our milestone demos looked great.
We touched on some truly innovative game systems that I unfortunately can't talk about. We shed sweat and blood to get them working, but it started to come together.

 

[MasterLobar]

"There's a lot of criticism of Warren here that I don't think is very fair. [...] In person he has a very gentle, kind, and humble demeanor.v[...] I don't recall his involvement ever being corrosive."

The problem is his lying and arrogance vs backers. Two examples:

"We said during the campaign on Kickstarter: 'We will do the first Ultima Underworld, we will offer you that experience', but then we realized that we didn’t want to offer that experience."

https://forums.otherside-e.com/t/wa...-we-didnt-want-to-offer-that-experience/10069

Underworld Ascendant has "done well enough to get our next game funded" -- although he said he doesn't know the exact sales figure. "My business partner handles all this stuff."

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ector-if-immersive-sims-disappear-i-disappear

 

[Infinitron]

Sam checks in: https://forums.otherside-e.com/t/layoffs-at-otherside/10096/28

Extremely sad to see the Austin team affected by layoffs.

FWIW, I know people are concerned about the state of the studio. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t worried as well. Someone from the Shock3 team has been speaking about their experience over here on the RPGCodex, if it hasn’t been linked already. In that thread, there are more concerns about OSE shutting down and what it means for Shock3 as well as ongoing projects.

I want to say, having been at OSE while layoffs were happening and having left just before this next round in Austin, I deeply admired every single developer I had the chance to work with. Having played the internal SS3 demo, I know the Austin team worked their asses off and made some stunning progress in the past couple of months. It hurts to see many of these developers out of a job on a project they worked so hard on. Some of the developers in Boston, like Jared, still haven’t found full-time work since June.

I understand this is the reality of game development, and doing this kind of work at an indie makes this so much harder. I watched firsthand a lot of the struggles that went into publishing UA. I wish all of our fellow former- and current-OSE employees the best of luck with their endeavors. I imagine the studio felt similarly a few years ago, when UA was floundering for funding. They pulled through, somehow. I hope OSE can pull off the same, while still maintaining the quality and lessons learned.

I genuinely wish and hope that the additional Boston project and SS3 continue to steer forward.

 

[Tweed]

I wouldn't feel too bad folks, I'm sure the remake will deliver all kinds of disappointment.

 

[MasterLobar]

Sam checks in: https://forums.otherside-e.com/t/layoffs-at-otherside/10096/28

"Some of the developers in Boston, like Jared, still haven’t found full-time work since June."

Just to remind everyone what she is talking about:

"I'm at Otherside Entertainment as a QA tester, and as I found out one week ago that once we got console versions for Underworld Ascendant wrapped up, I'm going to be promoted to a designer for the next thing. (clap, clap, clap)" (May 29, 2019)



https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...ant-is-a-disaster.124859/page-79#post-6190426

June 20, 2019, one day after console release:

 

[bat_boro]

Sorry to say this, but would anybody in their sane mind hire anybody that specifies his/her/xir/xer gender pronoun on twitter?

 

[HansDampf]

He's a cool dude.