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Teardown - Voxels, destruction, interactivity, problem solving, emergent gameplay

SlamDunk

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https://teardowngame.com





I've been following Dennis "Meqon/AGEIA" Gustafsson's tweets about his voxel/physics engine for a long time and been more and more impressed with each new video clip.

Today he finally made public the name of the game and what it is about. Early Access planned for early next year.

Teardown homepage

Development/work-in-progress videos: https://twitter.com/tuxedolabs/media

Video explaining the game:



Tuxedo Labs said:
Can I buy or download this game?
No, not yet. The game is still in development and there is no public version available.

When is it released?
There is no final release date yet, but I'm hoping to release it in early access in some form in early 2020.

What platforms will be supported?
The game will release on PC/Windows 64-bit.

What hardware is required to run this game?
Due to the rendering technique and the heavy use of physics simulation, the game requires a modern PC to run well. I recommend an Intel Core i7 processor and an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 or better but the game will run on older hardware as well, just slower.

What game engine are you using?
The game uses a custom physics and graphics engine built for this game specifically. It uses raytracing for lighting, but does not require an RTX GPU.


 
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PrettyDeadman

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The tech is very impressive.
The gameplay loop sounds like it might also work which is a bit surprising, considering it started as a techdemo with no game in mind (afaik).
 

Bester

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Looks good. How is it destructible environment not a standard in gaming by now?
First of all, we have destructible environment, e.g. in GTA you can shatter glass panes, break traffic signs, trees, fire hydrants. In Dark Souls you can shatter half the furniture and other assets you see. In Fortnite you can destroy almost anything, make walls in everything.

You mean why we don't have voxel based games? Cause it doesn't work with high poly models, only with low poly stuff like in that game.

The gameplay loop sounds like it might also work which is a bit surprising
No, it's boring, one gimmick with no gameplay doesn't sell a game.
 

Child of Malkav

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Looks good. How is it destructible environment not a standard in gaming by now?
First of all, we have destructible environment, e.g. in GTA you can shatter glass panes, break traffic signs, trees, fire hydrants. In Dark Souls you can shatter half the furniture and other assets you see. In Fortnite you can destroy almost anything, make walls in everything.

You mean why we don't have voxel based games? Cause it doesn't work with high poly models, only with low poly stuff like in that game.

I meant everything destructible, not just certain assets.
It would open up so many options, possibilities not just for action games, stealth games, RPGs and others but in general, in RTSs, RTTs, multiplayer games.
From what I understand, the biggest limitation is hardware related, as a game with such physics simulation would need a seriously cutting edge CPU which is not something most people afford.
And no, I haven't played Fortnite. I'll watch some YouTube videos to see this stuff in action.
 

Bester

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From what I understand, the biggest limitation is hardware related, as a game with such physics simulation would need a seriously cutting edge CPU which is not something most people afford.
No, you could make everything destructible, it just doesn't make sense gameplay wise (or reality wise).

UE even introduced some supposedly optimized system for that recently:


It would open up so many options, possibilities not just for action games, stealth games, RPGs and others but in general, in RTSs, RTTs, multiplayer games.
I'm all ears, please list such options in all those genres. RPG for example, how can Age of Decadence benefit from everything being breakable?
 

LESS T_T

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Looks impressive. Too bad gameplay seems just about running and collecting. Makes me think a game about safely tearing down buildings (with all sorts of tools, managing cost and risk) would be more interesting.
 

Child of Malkav

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From what I understand, the biggest limitation is hardware related, as a game with such physics simulation would need a seriously cutting edge CPU which is not something most people afford.
No, you could make everything destructible, it just doesn't make sense gameplay wise (or reality wise).

UE even introduced some supposedly optimized system for that recently:


It would open up so many options, possibilities not just for action games, stealth games, RPGs and others but in general, in RTSs, RTTs, multiplayer games.
I'm all ears, please list such options in all those genres. RPG for example, how can Age of Decadence benefit from everything being breakable?

It's fun, it doesn't have to be realistic. It's a game after all.
Anyway, for those genres there are plenty of scenarios, I'm gonna mention only a few:
FPSs/TPSs: making shortcuts on the map by destroying walls or other obstacles, making high caliber weapons penetrate walls allowing skilled players to take precise shots at others even behind cover, using vehicles with high speed to drive in a direction and jump out letting said vehicle to break through/cut a path through enemy forces or structures (you could even plant bombs on it so you can detonate them after, like in Far Cry), hunting down a target that hid in a building protected by enemy forces and if you're in a helicopter you could just fire missiles at the building destroying it and everything inside or simply fly above it and parachute out letting the helicopter fall on the roof of the building, crushing it and everything inside and various others. This would work very well in GTA for example as you have many vehicles and a large map.
Stealth games: creating entry/exit points into a facility, using drones to to scout as well as disabling lights that normally cannot be shot or taken out in any other way by simply destroying/cutting the wire connecting the light to the power source, accessing vents that are normally inaccessible, destroying locks if you can't pick them, using a loud explosion to create a diversion as well as an entry/exit point into a place, destroying parts of the level to prevent or alter NPC patrol routes, again using drones to disable a security system or generator, causing a temporary blackout allowing you to move, complete objectives undetected. Just off the top of my head.
RPGs: investing in strength allowing powerful characters to crumble walls, destroy support beams, pillars causing the ceiling to fall on enemies, breaking down doors, push heavy objects, throw them on enemies or rooftops creating an access point for a more agile character, destroying various walls therefore bypassing checkpoints or ambushes. It would depend on the level design and verticality as well as NPC placement to choose how/where to use this feature.
RTSs/RTTs: in most RTSs, when moving armies, they have to go around forests, rivers, mountains, hills etc instead of using artillery to cut a path through forests or altering the course of a river by destroying a nearby tower for example causing to fall over and temporarily block the flow of water or by shelling and making a hole in the ground where some of the water from the river can accumulate allowing temporary safe traversal through shallow water (again, it doesn't have to be realistic), in Desperados, using the guy with the dynamite to blow up a building filled with enemies, or carrying a barrel near a wall and detonating it, or using a minigun to shoot inside a building killing everyone in there, using Sanchez to break down doors, smaller fences and whatever else, in Commandos, using your spy to infiltrate and plant explosives to allow your other characters entry, destroy generators, lights, walls, buildings, lookout towers etc. Haven't played it in years so I don't remember much from it.
All of this stuff can be applied to these genres, not be limited to one. And it would depend on the game, the level design, the verticality.
In Firaxis XCOM 2, you can destroy a turret by blowing up the floor and causing it to fall. Enemies take fall damage as well. You can cut a path to extraction instead of going around large buildings. This also has a chance of starting fires that spread and further destroy the building.
In a Lost mission, if you get swarmed you can climb into an abandoned apartment building and blow up the access stairwells to prevent them from reaching you allowing you to farm them and wait for extraction. Again, only a few examples.
I don't understand why I have to explain this. The advantages are numerous and, to me, very obvious.
Realism shouldn't be a concern. Realism is why we went from GTA SA to GTA 4.
 

The Fish

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He has gifs on twitter showing spider enemies, he runs into a building and blocks the entrance with planks of wood to get away from them.

If he turned this into a zombie game in which you have to board up an abandoned house a night and drive around looking for supplies in the day, breaking into basements, he'd probably make a killing. If he then added some car chases, running away from bandits like in Beware, he might actually have a pretty decent game on his hands. With that volumetric lighting the atmosphere would be great.

edit:

here

 
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Bester

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FPSs/TPSs: making shortcuts on the map by destroying walls or other obstacles
The purpose of walls is to guide your character in a certain way. If there are no walls and locked doors, the story goes to shit.
If we're talking VTMB, do you want the entire level design to be screwed, the story to break, etc?
If we're talking Far Cry or MGS, you could do it, but then you'd be cheesing your way through all infiltration missions, that were carefully designed to be difficult. The AI won't adjust to a broken wall, e.g. won't patrol the area differently after discovering it, etc.
Level designers place hand-made destructible walls where they want them. If you can destroy all walls, the game is fucked.

making high caliber weapons penetrate walls allowing skilled players to take precise shots at others even behind cover
You can do that from the programming side, no need to destroy walls for that.

you could just fire missiles at the building destroying it and everything inside
Doesn't fit a lot of games. It fits some, but it's too cheesy of a general-purpose solution to most situations. And on top of that, it doesn't mean you make all walls destructible separately, you just make the entire house destructible, which is not the same thing. So it's not the subject of our conversation.

using drones to to scout as well as disabling lights that normally cannot be shot or taken out
Lights could be destroyed since Thief and this has nothing to do with the subject of our conversation.

RPGs: investing in strength allowing powerful characters to crumble walls, destroy support beams, pillars causing the ceiling to fall
RPGs don't support open ended approaches. Their designers hand-craft each approach you can take, because each requires appropriate reactivity. Because an RPG is a simulation of reality. If you can just break a wall and get inside Vault 13 when they kicked you out, oopsie, kicking you out is no longer a possible plot branch. And so are 99% other plot branches.
For combat purpose, DIVOS does everything you need in terms of exploding barrels. If you can collapse the building you're in, that's game over, so there's no point.

Didn't read further, you seem very confused about games in general.
 
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Child of Malkav

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I assumed that everything is destructible so I can give examples of some scenarios.
Not all lights in every stealth game can be destroyed. For some, you need to find the power source and switch it off or destroy it. It could work really well with immersive sims since they allow for this type of approaches.
When I said cutting the cables I was referring to another solution to disable lights or other security systems. You haven't really played many immersive sims have you?
Oh and I'm confused about games yet you come and say "an RPG is a simulation of reality". What? I don't remember allocating skill points, attributes, creating my character, having perks or traits, or leveling up. Life would have been easier then.
Anyway, from your post I see you're more concerned with not breaking the game/story/whatever. And being able to destroy a lot of the environment could be kept under control by making resources scarce. But, my story.
 

JarlFrank

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FPSs/TPSs: making shortcuts on the map by destroying walls or other obstacles
The purpose of walls is to guide your character in a certain way. If there are no walls and locked doors, the story goes to shit.
If we're talking VTMB, do you want the entire level design to be screwed, the story to break, etc?
If we're talking Far Cry or MGS, you could do it, but then you'd be cheesing your way through all infiltration missions, that were carefully designed to be difficult. The AI won't adjust to a broken wall, e.g. won't patrol the area differently after discovering it, etc.
Level designers place hand-made destructible walls where they want them. If you can destroy all walls, the game is fucked.

That's why most stealth games have noise mechanics. Thief has noise mechanics. Dishonored has noise mechanics. You can already break boards that board up entryways in Thief and Dishonored with your sword but doing so makes a sound and can attract guards. Breaking entire walls with explosives is going to be even louder. Also, in a stealth game like Thief or Dishonored, explosives would be a limited resource so you can't just blow up every wall willy-nilly. Blowing up walls to create shortcuts wouldn't just be a no-brainer, it would often be a sub-optimal solution since it would attract a lot of attention.

"If you allow the player too much freedom, the game is fucked" is why Thi4f turned out to be such a shit game. The devs restricted rope arrows to specific hand-placed spots around the map, rather than making them work on every surface that has a wooden texture on it, because they didn't want players to break their precious scripting. If you design your levels properly and make sure that destroying walls comes with a consequence (LOUD NOISES), it won't be game-breaking at all.



RPGs: investing in strength allowing powerful characters to crumble walls, destroy support beams, pillars causing the ceiling to fall
RPGs don't support open ended approaches. Their designers hand-craft each approach you can take, because each requires appropriate reactivity. Because an RPG is a simulation of reality. If you can just break a wall and get inside Vault 13 when they kicked you out, oopsie, kicking you out is no longer a possible plot branch. And so are 99% other plot branches.
For combat purpose, DIVOS does everything you need in terms of exploding barrels. If you can collapse the building you're in, that's game over, so there's no point.

Didn't read further, you seem very confused about games in general.

You either overestimate the consequence-free abilities a player would get with such destruction systems, or overestimate the "disruptiveness" of it on the plot.

Fallout's Vault 13 is a sturdy thing built to survive nuclear strikes. The front door is thick and heavy, and the wall is made of several layers of thick concrete. It's also underground and this front gate is the only access point to the Vault. Is there any weapon in the game that would be capable of breaking through that? No, there isn't.

Normal houses in the towns, though? Their walls are usually pretty cheap and thin. If you have explosives (rare and expensive) or a rocket launcher (even rarer and more expensive and requires high STR to wield) you could easily, say, blow a hole in the wall of the slaver compound in The Den as an alternate way of breaking in there and killing the bastards. How would that break the game? Attacking and killing the slavers is already an option, after all.

For mission-based tactical RPGs it would be an amazing system, btw - and even one that has been attempted before, with inferior tech, to great effect. Both Jagged Alliance 2 and Silent Storm allow you to blow up walls. Silent Storm even lets you blow up floors and ceilings. It adds another tactical layer to the battles and gives you an alternate approach to, say, storming a heavily fortified house where the front door is the only open venue of access, but guarded so heavily a frontal assault would be insanely difficult. Blow up a wall at a side wing of the building and fight the battle on your terms.

In these games, it is often a good tactical choice but it doesn't become a solution you use all the time because - guess what - explosives are a limited resource and normal guns don't tear down walls.
 

Neanderthal

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Reminds me of that early tech demo for DOW2, where magpies were storming a destructible upper part of a hive city, fuck me that would have been awesome.
 

Bester

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Also, in a stealth game like Thief or Dishonored, explosives would be a limited resource so you can't just blow up every wall willy-nilly. Blowing up walls to create shortcuts wouldn't just be a no-brainer, it would often be a sub-optimal solution since it would attract a lot of attention.
How do you even simulate the attention that a hole in the castle should provoke from NPCs in Dishonored? There's a gaping hole, holy fuck. It's not the same as "uh I think I heard something... no nevermind". It's a fucking hole. Call the army, get everyone, evacuate all targets inside, mission failed.

it is often a good tactical choice but it doesn't become a solution you use all the time because - guess what - explosives are a limited resource and normal guns don't tear down walls.
So let's say you blow up a wall in the New Reno gun shop. How is shop owner supposed to react? He needs to close down shop, start guarding the hole, eventually call someone to get it fixed. If he doesn't react, it's shit reactivity. If he starts doing all of that, imagine all the work that has to go into ALL of such scenarios across all of areas, and then let the player witness it only once or twice in the entire game. I think we've been through this conversation with you before. I have a deja vu.
 

JarlFrank

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Also, in a stealth game like Thief or Dishonored, explosives would be a limited resource so you can't just blow up every wall willy-nilly. Blowing up walls to create shortcuts wouldn't just be a no-brainer, it would often be a sub-optimal solution since it would attract a lot of attention.
How do you even simulate the attention that a hole in the castle should provoke from NPCs in Dishonored? There's a gaping hole, holy fuck. It's not the same as "uh I think I heard something... no nevermind". It's a fucking hole. Call the army, get everyone, evacuate all targets inside, mission failed.

Entire garrison goes on high alert. If you manage to hide and don't get found, alert level stays high for the rest of the mission, making stealth harder since guards overreact to any noise now. Simple.

Also, I don't think there's a strong enough explosive to tear a hole into a goddamn castle wall, made to withstand catapult and cannon shots. Same situation as with Vault 13's front door being sturdy enough to be unbreakable by any of Fallout's weapons.

Can wooden or simple brick walls be broken with strong enough explosives? Yes. Can two meter thick concrete fortress walls? No, of course not.

It's like Thief's universal rope arrows. They work on any texture with the material quality "wood" or "fabric". They don't work on stone, marble, metal, etc. They give the player a lot of freedom in exploring the level but that freedom is not unlimited.

it is often a good tactical choice but it doesn't become a solution you use all the time because - guess what - explosives are a limited resource and normal guns don't tear down walls.
So let's say you blow up a wall in the New Reno gun shop. How is shop owner supposed to react? He needs to close down shop, start guarding the hole, eventually call someone to get it fixed. If he doesn't react, it's shit reactivity. If he starts doing all of that, imagine all the work that has to go into ALL of such scenarios across all of areas, and then let the player witness it only once or twice in the entire game. I think we've been through this conversation with you before. I have a deja vu.

Same thing that happens in Fallout when you attack a neutral NPC or get caught stealing: everyone goes hostile and that town won't have relations with you anymore.

It's not like a game has to have it as a good, valid choice in any and every situation just because the engine allows its simulation.
You can also attack any NPC you want in Arcanum, Fallout, Infinity Engine games, etc. But you can partially break the game by permanently turning a town hostile towards you that way. Oops.

I'm not arguing that everything should be completely and entirely destructible in every game ever, but engines that allow for such destruction can add something of value to most games. The technology behind it can make a designer's job easier if he wants to implement destructible walls, and if you design different wall types in a logical way so the player can easily guess which ones can be exploded and which ones can't, it's a great tool for both players and level designers to play with.
 

Bester

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Same thing that happens in Fallout when you attack a neutral NPC or get caught stealing: everyone goes hostile and that town won't have relations with you anymore.
This behavior is already a prime example of bad handling of unexpected situations.

Everyone turning hostile, whores trying to stab you etc because you supposedly offed a junkie somewhere else? And this against a guy who's wearing an enclave armor? This made no sense then, nor would it make more sense now. Stop defending bullshit design.

You're defending a feature that no game needs and that's impossible to make the game react to correctly. Nobody wants it, and it doesn't work. It's like defending nazism.
 

HoboForEternity

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silent storm at least proved it was cool to have almost fully destructible envinronment in a tactic squad games. it have strong contextual destruction too. you can't shoot trough brick walls with an SMG, but you can do it with .50 cal machine gun or explosive. you can't shoot trough a bunker wall. it's so satisfying in SS where you just hear enemy presence in the next room and just order you squad to blind fire trough the plaster/wooden walls an hit them.
 

Magitex

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He has gifs on twitter showing spider enemies, he runs into a building and blocks the entrance with planks of wood to get away from them.

If he turned this into a zombie game in which you have to board up an abandoned house a night and drive around looking for supplies in the day, breaking into basements, he'd probably make a killing. If he then added some car chases, running away from bandits like in Beware, he might actually have a pretty decent game on his hands. With that volumetric lighting the atmosphere would be great.

edit:

here


Now if we could just port Cataclysm: DDA to this kind of engine.. and add VR ;)

I wish Nvidia would shift their focus to voxel acceleration instead of raytracing, then we might get high resolution voxel systems. Polygons got nothing on voxels.
 

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