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Wadjet Eye Technobabylon: Birthright - sequel with 3D graphics

Discussion in 'Adventure Gaming' started by Morgoth, Feb 20, 2017.

  1. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    This is inevitably going to come out the wrong way, but I'm curious how old you are. At least in my recollection, adventure games were by far the best visuals in their era.

    For instance, Loom came out in 1990. This is what Loom looked like:

    (Of course I'm cherry-picking.)

    And here's a big budget RPG of the same era:
    [​IMG]

    Of course there were other good looking games, but adventure games really were at the very top.

    Oh, sure, I was using graphics as shorthand. Pick your own lingo! Adventure games developers tended to care a ton about aesthetics, and the best-remember adventure games tended to be the most aesthetically pleasing. Those games were also, often, technically advanced from a graphical standpoint too.

    I took your premise to be that adventure gamers care less about visuals (graphics, aesthetics, <SystermUser> is welcome to select his own terminology) than other genre fans. A kind counter-indicator is that capitalist adventure game developers poured huge amounts of resources into visuals and were always trying to be cutting edge -- pushing technical limits as well as striving for aesthetics.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Primordia had a lot more testers than artists, that's for sure. :)

    Really, if you make a VGA adventure game, none of it is very expensive. You probably could hire people to make a standard WEG game for ~$60k.

    I think we're talking past each other. I'm not saying that adventures should be about graphics, merely that nothing about the genre's history suggests its fans are more tolerant of bad visuals than are fans of other genres.

    :negative:

    I disagree pretty strongly. The number of adventure games with spectacular visuals in the past twenty years is significant. Even just looking at very small indies, you have Stasis, Paradigm, Dropsy, the WEG catalog, etc. The baseline expectation is that an indie adventure game will be roughly comparable visually to adventure games from the 1990s onward. When was the last adventure game that was as well designed as those games? I can't think of any.

    Everyone thinks that game design is a joke because we know we can't draw or make music but don't know we can't design puzzles or write well.

    [/quote]
    Of course, I said as much myself. But other genres are not dependent on atmosphere at all.

    I like puzzles too and am something of an evangelist for them in their waning days in the P&C genre. But even really great P&C puzzles, like the spitting puzzle in MI2, is only cool in the context of its atmosphere.

    (Again, true puzzle-oriented games like Myst are different.)

    :notsureifserious:
    The saying that a picture is worth a thousand words is a shorthand for saying words can't replace pictures, not a proposal to replace visual media with long-winded text.

    Yes, without good visuals adventure games need to draw their atmosphere from elsewhere. But since good visuals are relatively easy -- easier in fact than other forms of evoking atmosphere -- I'm not sure this is a solution. A lot of mediocre words don't make up for nice visuals.

    Anyway, if you want thousands of words and no visuals, a bunch of us are doing a long-winded interview with Chris Picone about adventure game design, which someday will be posted. Here's my take on puzzles, though my responses my change as the editing process goes on:
     
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  2. Blaine Cis-Het Oppressor Patron

    Blaine
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Absolutely I do, yes. People do that all the time, and not only in computer game development—professionals ranging from artists to engineers and from film makers to manufacturers make compromises, cut corners, slash costs, and take shortcuts to save time; they then either stick their hands in their pockets and whistle innocently, hoping that no one notices or that nothing goes wrong, or else they actively try to convince themselves and others (especially others) that their product or service isn't the lesser for it.

    If you still don't recognize the phenomenon I'm describing, then you haven't left your home since at least the Clinton administration and have forgotten how human beings operate when they aren't at their best.

    It makes perfect sense: It's called MONEY. A proper artist isn't available, apparently, so inferior and shitty outdated 3D graphics are being used instead. As described above, when one makes compromises, one tends to put a brave face on it and pretend that nothing's wrong, or even that everything's great, couldn't be better! That's called BULLSHITTING. There, that's two blanks handily filled in.

    I've never said that developers decide to make their games objectively bad for no reason. There are always reasons and justifications.

    I don't remember what that was at this point, but chances are I did in fact address it and you're pretending that I didn't as part of some petulant tantrum. Accusing people of not addressing one's point is a very common tactic here on the Codex.

    Either way, your pathetic insistence on making a stand by rules-lawyering objective vs. subjective only serves to underline how low you've got to stoop to defend this obvious graphical downgrade. Perhaps a few more walls of text will help to ensure high sales for this compromised sequel?
     
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  3. evdk comrade troglodyte :M Patron

    evdk
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    Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    This seems to be new:

    Looks better than the original WIP screens, at least.

    I'd like to see it in motion though.
     
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  4. HoboForEternity In every buttons you press Patron

    HoboForEternity
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    looks much much better than before.
     
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  5. Don Peste Arcane

    Don Peste
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    :nocountryforshitposters:
     
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  6. Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd Arcane Patron

    Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd
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    Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Yep. These screens are not fuggly.
     
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  7. Wizfall Arbiter

    Wizfall
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    I'm more a casual adventure gamer and consider visuals in adventure games the most important feature, above story, setting and puzzles respectively.
    Visuals does not mean top notch modern graphics though as a game such as Gemini R is truly beautiful in my eyes (in contrast i like more modern looking game like the Runaway serie or the journey down too)

    It seems Technobabylon will be a free roaming 3D and it's not so much the graphics that the gameplay that i dislike in this kind of adventure game (and the changing of view point).
    Usually too much uninteresting walking/bland background introduced instead of "intense" fixed background with more things to look at/interact with.
    Moreover the more the view is zoom in this kind of game the more the visual may look cheap (in the link four posts above the first view is fine, the second is "awful" IMO, the third is very average and the last is fine).
     
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  8. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    I thought, "who'd have the audacity to make the Birthright sequel 20 years after the setting was canned?"

    But it's merely clickbait. Shame.
     
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  9. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
     
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  10. coldcrow Prophet Patron

    coldcrow
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    At least he admits that it "may" not work out. I hope he doesn'T go full Daedalic.
     
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  11. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    It could work,but there is really good chance to alienate most of its fans. I doubt that i will play it.....too much diversity for my taste. If it was made a half a decade ago i wouldn't have minded,but this climate...
     
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  12. Beastro Arcane

    Beastro
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    A problem I find is keeping the divide between good visuals and the work becoming just an interactive novel.

    Given the emphesis on gameplay back then, I think they could get away with it, but we're in the other extreme now.

    Course, I'm speaking as a not adventure game person here.


    Odd you say that about those gaphics, because to me, they are Sega Genesis ones (even if they are poorer than Aimga's) and I get a far more distinct reaction to them than I do anything NES or SNES. I can't really think of anything quintessentially NES, while things I think about being SNES-like have more to do with general 90s design choices than the consoles graphics themselves beyond maybe a few games like Final Fantasy IIIs that blended well with CRTs.

    Back to Genesis, no game expresses that more than Shadow of the Beast is Sonic 1.

    [​IMG]

    Turbo Graphx 16 also had a very similar feel, though I didn't see more than a couple games for the week my cousin had his.
     
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  13. bertram_tung Arbiter

    bertram_tung
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    Ben Chandler is a genius and the fact that he can whip up something like that with little to no experience with that kind of style is impressive.

    I still wish this was 2D but the last few screenshots released by Dave and co. are more encouraging than the first ones.
     
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  14. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    https://adventuregamers.com/articles/view/37538

     
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  15. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    New info!

    Controller based gameplay, next gen UI.

     
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  16. evdk comrade troglodyte :M Patron

    evdk
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    Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    I feel like I am being trolled here.
     
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  17. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    I think it's great that WEG is taking their games in a more console-style, Telltale fashion -- it helps differentiate our games while also broadening the tent of potential customers, since if they reach new folks, some of those customers might make their way to Primordia or Strangeland. Also, it's hard not to be happy for these devs being able to make the games they really wanted to, even if they aren't the games I'd necessarily want to play. For me, Primordia's style was aspirational -- I started wanting to make a game like Primordia in ~1993, after playing King's Quest V, King's Quest VI, Loom, and Hugo II: Whodunit? (admittedly, a parser based game), and I have a deep conservatism in my tastes, meaning once I love something, it takes a lot to get me to change from it. (I still eat at the same restaurants I did 25 years ago, for instance.) But Dave has always said that he didn't want to make retro games at all, he just made them that way because that's what the tool (AGS) and resources dictated. Pretty sure James Dearden and Francisco said the same thing. The old school games for them were a creative sacrifice en route to creative freedom. They aren't pandering to the market by making streamlined or consolized games, they're achieving a decade-long goal that was put on hiatus while they settled for puzzle-based point-and-clicks. If they were "selling out" that might disappoint me, but this I can only applaud -- the only thing that makes me happier than Dave getting rich publishing the games I like is Dave getting richer publishing the games he likes.
     
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