Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

KickStarter Telepath Tactics - deterministic tactical RPG inspired by Fire Emblem

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by ColCol, May 14, 2014.

  1. vonAchdorf Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    vonAchdorf
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Messages:
    9,157
    Yes, you are right about using those to calculate the (hypothetical) costs of a game if done by a third party, it's just that words like "fairly" trigger me ;)

    I'm looking forward to the sales figures and hope they allow you to go full-time with your game development. You had some cautious remarks in the piece about lacking polish impeding sales numbers, but I hope, it worked out for you anyway!

    In the long run, you'll probably want to move away from AIR, which will certainly require additional resources.
     
    ^ Top  
  2. tuluse Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    tuluse
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Messages:
    11,399
    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    A little distortion with those numbers, you point out that you don't receive full price from your sales, but as though publishers selling physical copies do. The budgets for the games you mention can probably be decreased to 1/3-1/2 what you wrote.

    Also, ouch on that BMT Micro rate, go with Paypal or Amazon and you'll be paying half or less.
     
    ^ Top  
  3. Craig Stern Sinister Design Developer

    Craig Stern
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Chicago
    Oh, I'm definitely not switching to Paypal--try Googling paypal screws game developer and see what shows up. :)
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    ^ Top  
  4. tuluse Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    tuluse
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Messages:
    11,399
    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    That seems to be related to very large purchases and pre-orders.

    We use paypal as our cc processing where I work and we have no problems getting our money and we only pay ~3.5%.
     
    ^ Top  
  5. deuxhero Arcane

    deuxhero
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    8,536
    Location:
    Flowery Land
    I did. The swordsman, spearman and crossbowman all attack, but the altar survives with one HP. The stones on the side of it can't be damaged, and no unit can attack diagnols, so there's no other way to position them.
     
    ^ Top  
  6. vonAchdorf Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    vonAchdorf
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Messages:
    9,157
    Your crossbow woman is probably one tile too far back. They need to be lined up directly behind each other. Ranged weapons loose strength with distance.
     
    ^ Top  
  7. deuxhero Arcane

    deuxhero
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    8,536
    Location:
    Flowery Land
    That explains that. The tutorial tutorial doesn't cover that, at least not at that point, (the main game tutorial does)
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Craig Stern Sinister Design Developer

    Craig Stern
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Chicago
    It used to be unnecessary, as the crossbowman couldn't target more than 3 squares away--I think that must have been changed in the tutorial at some point. I'll add in some text explaining damage fall-off.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    ^ Top  
  9. Jaesun Fabulous Moderator

    Jaesun
    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    36,924
    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
    A new review here, that covers the basics of the game http://truepcgaming.com/2015/06/08/telepath-tactics-review/

    Concussion – Is It Worth Your Money?
    Telepath Tactics is a challenging and well-designed entry in a somewhat underrepresented strategy subgenre on the PC. Despite minor issues and the rather big oversight of not allowing mid-mission savegames, it’s an easy recommendation for strategy fans and RPG aficionados alike. If you’re into turn-based tactics, you really shouldn’t waste any more action points and immediately pick up this gem. Just be prepared to spend a lot of time on the lengthy and difficult missions.​
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. Jimmious Arcane Patron

    Jimmious
    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    5,093
    A good concussion is always worth your money :troll:
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. Crooked Bee (no longer) a wide-wandering bee Patron

    Crooked Bee
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    15,027
    Location:
    In quarantine
    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I've honestly no idea why Fire Emblem would need that kind of budget. It's kinda mind-blowing, given that it's a very niche, non-AAA strategy RPG. Bloated team, I'd guess.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  12. pakoito Arcane

    pakoito
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,569
    Polish and UI. Studios are not 200 people deep because of the engineering work, but all the assets needed in a short timespan.
     
    ^ Top  
  13. vonAchdorf Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    vonAchdorf
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Messages:
    9,157
    I don't think that you can infer the budget from the sales numbers this way. Nintendo doesn't get the whole $40 from sales outside its download store (maybe 70% max.), which would equal 7M. Deduct marketing costs, we get a reasonable budget (think what Tim Schafer did with that kind of money). The game is also developed for a platform with an install base of 50M, not wanting to spend (effectively) in-house resources on a niche game not even selling 250.000 copies seems to be reasonable. (Real) third parties could probably produce the game (or a similar title) cheaper than Nintendo, for Nintendo the opportunity costs are too high, the developers could work on a Mario title like Sticker Wars which sells 2M.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Craig Stern Sinister Design Developer

    Craig Stern
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Chicago
    I dunno about that--I could see them needing it. It's really expensive to pay a team of full-time developers for 2-3 years! Their games may not be deeper or more mechanically complex than Telepath Tactics, but they do have a lot more custom art assets, polish, and marketing, and all of that takes time and money to make happen.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. Abu Antar Tweet, tweet Patron

    Abu Antar
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    7,636
    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Plus cutscenes, devs working on DLC and so on.

    FE:A was reported by Nintendo to have sold over 1 million copies some time ago. It's now at 1,5 million or thereabouts.
     
    ^ Top  
  16. tuluse Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    tuluse
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Messages:
    11,399
    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Well it doesn't need that much development budget. It does need it when you count

    store cut
    shipping costs
    printing disks, packages
    post release support
    breakage/returns
    any marketing done

    And probably some things I'm not thinking of. Craig kind of plays fast and loose with his numbers, taking out the 30% steam cut from his own revenue, but not taking out the cut plus the cost of physical distribution for Nintendo. There is a reason games got way cheaper when digital distribution became a thing.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    ^ Top  
  17. Craig Stern Sinister Design Developer

    Craig Stern
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Chicago
    You may not be aware of this, but Intelligent Systems is a wholly owned subsidiary of Nintendo; I would be surprised if Nintendo were exacting a Steam-style cut out of every sale, as that would basically be tantamount to Nintendo moving its own money around.

    As for the rest: if you're developing a game to be manufactured and shipped on physical media, then the costs of producing and shipping it are necessarily part of your budget. I have no idea why you think these expenses shouldn't count in their development budget.
     
    ^ Top  
  18. tuluse Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    tuluse
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Messages:
    11,399
    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Nintendo owns Walmart or whatever store the games are being sold at now?

    Because that's not what it costs to develop the game? If they sold it digitally on PC like you are doing, the distribution costs would be a lot smaller than what they are now. Your analysis makes it sound like they're spending all the money on art/programming/writing/design.
     
    ^ Top  
  19. Archibald Arcane

    Archibald
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,561
    "Worthwile" doesn't mean that it breaks even at 250k, Nintendo is big company that is interested in their games selling a lot and moving additional console/hand-held units. Besides as far as I remember FE numbers were in decline for years and it was basically Nintendo saying "guys, improve your numbers to at least X or we are wraping this franchise up".
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Craig Stern Sinister Design Developer

    Craig Stern
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Chicago
    New update! We're now up to version 1.038:

     
    • Brofist Brofist x 6
    ^ Top  
  21. Anthedon Arcane Patron

    Anthedon
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    2,532
    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Good riddance. Any more detailed hints as to what we might see in the future?
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. mindx2 Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter Patron

    mindx2
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    3,826
    Location:
    Gazing at his now empty game shelves :-(
    Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Yes! This was one of the biggest issues with TT along with no mid-battle save but it doesn't sound like Craig Stern is interested in implementing that piece (changes the dynamics of game-play too much?).
     
    ^ Top  
  23. Craig Stern Sinister Design Developer

    Craig Stern
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Chicago
    Yup! Going forward, I'm planning to finish implementing the new XML save file format and fix any remaining inventory issues. I also want to fix a persistent bug in the Mac version of the map editor and for Windows users, make the map editor check for the Steam install directory if it can't find it in the normal spot. I have other things planned as well, but those ones are top priority for now. :)

    Mid-battle save is on the wish list, but that'll be tough to implement, and I want to get the new save system locked in and debugged before I tackle that.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. mindx2 Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter Patron

    mindx2
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    3,826
    Location:
    Gazing at his now empty game shelves :-(
    Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Kingmaker
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    ^ Top  
  25. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Messages:
    8,533
    Telepath tactics featured on Super Bunny Hop. Craig Stern i thought your game was known more than this, i had played your telepath games long before i joined the codex. I hope this brings attention to the game, it certainly deserves it.



    PS: i always wondered, did character creation do anything to you? i would kill to be able to play your games with my own character, i just cannot get invested in your main characters for some reason.
     
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)