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KickStarter Telepath Tactics - deterministic tactical RPG inspired by Fire Emblem

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by ColCol, May 14, 2014.

  1. Craig Stern Sinister Design Developer

    Craig Stern
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    Thanks! :)

    Telepath RPG Chapter 2 and Telepath RPG: Servants of God both let you name and customize your character at the start of the game; I assume you mean that you'd like being able to choose specific combat skills / class as well?
     
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  2. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
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    Yep, tho i understand its for story purposes and that even a bit more flexibility at character creation will make it harder to predict how the main character will develop. Its still one of those features most RPG fans love.
     
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  3. Craig Stern Sinister Design Developer

    Craig Stern
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    Yeah. Part of it is for story reasons, as you mention, and part of it is because in those games, most classes had relatively few skills at their disposal. Only the psy-based classes really had a lot of room to develop new skills, so if I had let the player select a swordsman or a bowman, then the game would been a lot more boring for them. Telepath Tactics is probably the first game in the series where each class really has a large enough variety of skills that letting the player customize classes and starting skills would make some sense. I ultimately didn't follow that route in TT due to adopting the Fire Emblem template, but it's likely to eventually make an appearance in future games. :)
     
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  4. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    More sales stats: http://sinisterdesign.net/telepath-tactics-brass-tacks-and-sales-stats-part-2/

    Vault Dweller Aterdux Entertainment Whalenought_Joe etc
     
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  5. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    I'm itching to write something about negative reviews on Steam.

    A random Telepath Tactics review:

    "Not being able to recommend this game is one of the hardest things I've ever done. Full disclosure - I bought into the closed beta, I love games like Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, and Disgaea, and so on. And don't get me wrong. The gameplay itself is phenominal. I honestly don't think I've found a game that I've played that has a combat system I've enjoyed more. This game scratches an itch that fans of the genre don't really get much of nowadays. Combat is complex and offers much more tactical depth than most other games I've played, and it was built from the ground up to support custom content. The soundtrack is pretty good, and while the graphics aren't, I'm more than willing to look past that for gameplay of such high caliber. But there is one thing that, no matter how much I tried, I couldn't get past.

    This is a 2D, turn-based game. Please explain to me why it runs so poorly on my computer? ..."

    So you have a game with phenomenal gamepay, complex tactical combat with more tactical depth than all your favorite games combined, but it runs slowly, so it gets a negative review. I'm fine with people disliking games for any reason but when they praise a game to high heaven and then downvote it, it's like, what the fuck?
     
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  6. Abu Antar Tweet, tweet Patron

    Abu Antar
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    SteamSpy has been a bit spotty with some games but these numbers aren't that for off: Owners: 2,894 ± 1,332

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Abu Antar Tweet, tweet Patron

    Abu Antar
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    That's why I feel that the whole voting thing is fucked. Steam user reviews basically work like Metacritic user reviews and I hold shit in higher regard then them.
     
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  8. Crooked Bee (no longer) a wide-wandering bee Patron

    Crooked Bee
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    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Steam reviews are a terrible thing -- just like game journalism reviews, if in a different way. It's a loop.
     
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  9. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    The problem is that you have two options - yay or nay. Quite often a game falls somewhere in the middle (i.e. I like X but I hate Y). So some people think that Yay is a glowing endorsement whereas Nay is a reserved criticism, but when other people look at the reviews, they assume that Nay means utter shit.

    Some guy played AoD for 60 hours, decided that he doesn't like something, gave it a negative review but kept playing. He clocked over 100 hours now, will probably hit 120-150 easily.
     
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  10. gestalt11 Savant

    gestalt11
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    I don't read steam reviews, do a significant number of people actually use them? Most steam forum posts are pretty retarded compared to other forums. And considering the quality of some forums that says something.
     
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  11. Immortal Arcane

    Immortal
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    You can change your vote anytime. If a game comes out and runs like shit - I'll down vote it. Maybe a few negative reviews will get the dev off his ass and fix it. This applies to all games, not just Telepath. Bad Reviews are a good incentive to fix things that are wrong. They aren't set in stone - he can come back after a patch and change that to a good review anytime.

    That's a way better review system then Meta Critic.. where people shit all over a game because of a day one bug - then after it's fixed the game remains forever tarnished with a shit score.


    People shit on the steam review system.. but honestly - it's saved me many shekals. If you hit a store page and see a game that just got out of Early Access with a VERY NEGATIVE score.. even if the people reviewing it are whiney brats - you can be pretty sure it's a fucking stinker.

    Will steam reviews always align with your personal taste. No. It does a great job filtering the dog shit though.

    Not only do people review the game - other people can (and will) review YOUR review. Then the dev can even come in and respond to particularly high voted reviews either positive or negative. It creates a great feedback loop and self-moderation system. Shit headed reviews won't get visibility over well written ones.

    This is a free market at work you commies. Nobody should be shitting on a consumers ability to review a game he purchased (you have to own the game to review it)

    And this is very obvious. Your playtime of a game is right next to the review score. If I see a review where someone said "this game fucking sucks" and has 400 hours clocked on it.. I just assume he's a moron and move along.

    All the information is there front and center, you can't control dickheads.

    (There's a reason you can rate a review 3 different ways.. Good, Bad & Funny... the Funny option is for reviews that are retarded as best as I can tell) Gaben took all this into account already.
     
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  12. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    You can and maybe you do it but most people won't. The review in question, Craig responded saying that he updated the game twice, improving performance, but the guy moved it and doesn't care anymore.

    So if you have an issue, why not post it on Steam forums first and if the developer ignores it, then downvote the game.

    You've seen Craig, right? He's the most enthusiastic and nicest developer out there. Does he strike you as a guy who needs negative reviews to get off his ass?

    Nobody says people shouldn't bitch or downvote games. I'm saying that quite often people praise games and then downvote them, like the review in question. So it would be nice to have a 5-point system and not limit people to yay or nay.

    For example, the top negative Underrail review bitches about lockpicks and items you can't sell. Everything else is great and he calls Styg a great developer, but fucking lockpicks rub him the wrong way, so down he votes (78 of 142 people (55%) found this review helpful!)
     
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  13. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    The combination of Facebook/YouTube-style Like/Dislike and written reviews does seem a bit odd. I mean, imagine if every YouTube video Like/Dislike had to have a comment attached to it.
     
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  14. vonAchdorf Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    vonAchdorf
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    Looking at the app stores, a 5 star rating doesn't make things better, a significant share of people is retarded. I have seen countless reviews in the stores, where people praise a game (without any criticism) and them give 1 star.
    I think a yay or nay system is closer to a word of mouth recommendation. Liking a game and but still not recommending it isn't too unrealistic.
     
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  15. Immortal Arcane

    Immortal
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    I'm not endorsing people to be shit heads but why should they? They bought a product and want it to work- it's not their job to support you. I bet most of them can barely turn on a computer much less help you trouble shoot why the game runs like shit on a AMD.
    Again - you can't control dick heads.


    Yea that's why I said right after (which you conveniently snipped)
    I'm making the statement in general. I don't think the dev for Telepath is doing anything wrong but the simple fact is - if your gonna have a wild wild west video game store like Steam - you need a shaming tool like this to spark dev motivation.
    There is way too much abandonware on there and if a bad review can hurt sales, maybe devs will feel more inclined to deliver a good product.

    I mean the system is working on some level. Dev's are scared to death of bad reviews. The only flaw is misinformed / dick head consumers of your product.

    Welcome to any market everywhere.


    Okay so maybe that's feedback styg can take away - or not. Would a gradient system matter? The reviewer obviously feels strongly enough to give this a down vote.. If he had an option of 1 - 10 instead, would that fix anything..? what would stop him from giving it a 1?

    The review system is meant to be a "Would you recommend this" not a "What score would you give it". If people abuse the system now - they will abuse the system with a 1 - 10 score.
     
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  16. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    Is there any proof that that's what the tool does?

    It's too simplistic. Most developers are trying to deliver a good product. The problem is it's even more subjective than the definition of RPG. Did Sawyer try to deliver a good product? Of course he did (and most people think that he did, which is why Pillars enjoys a 90% Steam rating).

    Anyway, I'm not talking about negative reviews as a whole. I'm talking about negative reviews that aren't really negative, like the quoted TT and Underrail reviews.
     
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  17. Athelas Arcane

    Athelas
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    The key to success for an indie game seems to be having some quirky gimmick that draws a lot of attention. Unfortunately, something like 'deterministic RPG' doesn't work, because most players probably don't even what determinism means is in the context of RPG mechanics.

    Although I believe in this case, the game's fate was sealed simply for having graphics that are somewhat reminiscent of games developed with RPG Maker.
     
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  18. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Instead of reverting to stars or scores or whatever, maybe you could have a third option which basically means "decent game, but it has issues you may want to be aware of". I think that's a very common description for games that lots of people would use.
     
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  19. Immortal Arcane

    Immortal
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    I would argue - The fact that you care so much about positive and negative reviews means the system works in a tangible way. I would even consider you an edge case, being a developer who mostly makes what he personally wants over catering to a consumer base. Many other developers don't hold that obsessive conviction and would be influenced much more by their customers or negative ratings they receive then you probably are and yet.. you still know by memory negative reviews your game has gotten.

    I don't think PoE is abandonware. I'm talking about games that release, get a few updates then just sit there lathering hoping to collect some sales before ultimately fizzling into obscurity.. A review system makes it much harder for these turds to stay afloat because they have a EXTREMELY NEGATIVE plastered on their store page in red as an instant warning bell - despite the screenshots they managed to upload that looked half decent.
     
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  20. Abu Antar Tweet, tweet Patron

    Abu Antar
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    There are useful reviews, both positive and negative. I generally don't read reviews even less so when it comes to Steam user reviews, but sometimes I take a look just to see if there are any worth reading. I'm not in the know, but I suspect that many customers use the "negative" ,"positive" indicator to base their purchases on. I usually end up skimming over two or three retarded reviews (be they positive or negative) and I shake my head. The problem with the system is that there's no difference if you're review is 10 words or 1000 words. They are treated the same. It also doesn't matter that your review is trollish or not. I could see why developers could get annoyed. I trust Metacritic more than Steam reviews and that says a lot.
     
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  21. Craig Stern Sinister Design Developer

    Craig Stern
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    Ooooooookay, I've heard a bunch of people say this, and I can't understand where they're coming from. These are RPG maker sprites; they're giant-headed chibi dolls with like 3 frames of animation.

    These are Telepath Tactics sprites; they're realistically proportioned and really really well-animated: http://sinisterdesign.net/telepath-tactics-november-2014-update/

    I don't get where that comparison comes from. Is it because TT's graphic style is bright and a little cartoony?
     
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  22. Athelas Arcane

    Athelas
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    I wasn't critiquing your graphics, I was speculating about how they are regarded by the average player (keeping in mind that the average player isn't as discerning as you).
     
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  23. Craig Stern Sinister Design Developer

    Craig Stern
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    That's fine. I genuinely want to know where that conception is coming from, though--I spent tens of thousands of dollars and untold amounts of time hiring and managing artists to produce high quality custom graphics for this game; if people can't distinguish them from RPG Maker, that poses a legitimate problem for me.
     
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  24. Abu Antar Tweet, tweet Patron

    Abu Antar
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    You'd be surprised how many times I hear negative things about 2D games/sprite based games. Not only from strangers, from my cousins too. I even read complaints like that about Pillars of Eternity.
     
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  25. Immortal Arcane

    Immortal
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    I would say it comes from the colour palette and the detail of the sprites - so yea bright and a little cartoony.

    If you hold the sprites up side by side there's no question your assets are better quality.. but most gamers are probably not doing that. They just see an art direction similar to those games and make a snap judgement.
    Most gamers don't care about your labour, costs or even your game as much as you do.
    They see a walk animation loop and immediately think "jeeeze what is this.. RPG MAKER?"
     
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