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Vapourware That Which Sleeps - Vaporware Strategy RP

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Kem0sabe, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. empyrean Scholar

    empyrean
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Here's the latest update:
     
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  2. MaskedMan very cool Patron

    MaskedMan
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    :thumbsup:
     
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  3. Malakal Arcane

    Malakal
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    Ehh nice art and all but all of those are merely copies of monsters already rooted in the pop culture. His other stuff looks more promising.

    Granted the game will go for generic tropes right?
     
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  4. KingDinosaurGames King Dinosaur Games Patron Developer

    KingDinosaurGames
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    He's working with us to create an entry for each of our Old Ones in line with what you see above, but I agree his other works are incredibly evocative. Unfortunately they're also much more expensive to commission - we're hoping we can get a few of those later on once all the fundamentals needs of the game are squared away.

    We are absolutely a trope-fest, back when we thought the game would have absolutely no funding we figured it was the only way to get the player to inherently understand the role an Old One, Minion, or Unit would play without sufficient supporting art or other assets. Still, we've given Richard (and other artists) a lot of leeway in depicting the Old Ones so we'll see how it turns out.
     
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  5. CrimsonAngel Prophet

    CrimsonAngel
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    Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    It makes sens and even if it is troopy it is a small mater as long as the writing is good and the game play makes op for it and even if the troop have gotten used before the advantage is that you normally are not in control of things from this perspective.
     
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  6. Destroid Arcane

    Destroid
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    I used to think that every game should create its own mythology but I've since decided that unless you are a great writer, or have a story you are desperately want to write, using a pre-existing setting is very advantageous (or cobbling one together from many sources like this one).
     
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  7. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    While I'm a big proponent of building from older materials than existing popular fantasy tropes, it makes it way easier for players to grasp the game's mechanics if the skins are familiar. (And there's not much point in having Tolkien's dwarves but calling them Gauri and so on (as we did in Kohan II); that's the worst of both worlds.) Plus, "play as the bad guy" really only resonates if the bad guy (and the terrain in which he's operating) are familiar: there's a reason why Rampage used King Kong and Godzilla as the creatures (wolf man is less clear). Having The North Burns hew pretty closely to Tolkien or to The Wheel of Time seems to me a big part of its appeal.

    That said, I think there is a challenge in mixing Lovecraftian stuff with Tolkien/AD&D stuff. Lovecraft's brand of horror relies upon a real world and a rational POV; the possibility of fishmen isn't exactly mind-blowingly horrible if you just had lunch with a lizardman and a minotaur, nor are strange occurrences unnerving if people run around slinging fireballs and resurrecting fallen friends all the time. At a minimum, there must a certain mutatis mutandis, which probably involves scaling up the eldritchness from the Lovecraft level to something more like, I dunno, 21st century body horror.

    As far as I can think of, the only really good Tolkien meets Lovecraft I can think of is Tad Williams's Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series. (Mind you, I read it in my teens, so I probably considerably overrate it.) Even though it was a pretty standard Tolkien pastiche, it had at least three Lovecraft segments I can think of (one involving fishmen!), and they were all extremely effective.

    Anyway, the KDG guys know what they're doing!
     
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  8. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    Well, I think the notion of fishmen are kind of exaggerated even in the real-world. Turns out people in the real world aren't actually quite so fragile that they will collapse into gibbering wrecks upon seeing something weird. We're actually pretty inured to seeing strange shit. After all, we came up with the entire "fishmen" thing. Compared to the stuff that people came up with in the Middle Ages, fishmen are positively bland, especially if you're throwing them into a world where there are already lizardmen, cow-men, horse-men, tree-men, elves, dwarves, and none of these things are considered to be more than curiosities anymore. We've made these things BLAND. Elves used to be mysterious and kidnap babies for reasons known only to them, were totally hardcore, and would fuck you up. Now they just sing and hang out in trees. Dwarves were mysterious people from the bowels of the Earth. Now they're just angry Scottish drunks.
     
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  9. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    I don't think the fishmen ever drove anyone crazy in Lovecraft's writing. It's the being(s) that they serve that cause madness even when you just glimpse them.
     
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  10. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    I think we're saying the same thing. The Lovecraft model only works if you have a hyper-rational character (typically, an academic) in a hyper-rational time and place (early 20th century Massachusetts). Obviously even in the real world, people are pretty comfortable with all sorts of mumbo-jumbo and even prefer to believe in mumbo-jumbo than to believe in its absence, so the possibilities of fishmen would probably comfort rather than terrify them. That said, I'm pretty sure I would freak the hell out if I went through the Innsmouth experience.

    [EDIT

    I mean "only works" in the sense of "only seems like a semi-realistic depiction of human psychology." People obviously love Lovecraft's imagery in any number of settings.

    GarfunkeL I haven't read it in ages, but I thought that the madness begins when one observes some phenomenon that cannot be reconciled with physical laws. Dagon or Cthulu or whatever are just the last nudge.]
     
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  11. Ulminati Kamelåså! Patron

    Self-Ejected
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    Maybe it drives them crazy because they're anti-gamergate SJWs and the fishmen didn't check their elder being privilege.

    "That Which Tweets"
    :troll:
     
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  12. accismus Literate

    accismus
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    It's a bit of both, I think. Somebody usually experiences gradually rising terror until they break (which is when they meet an Elder God) but this only happens with the 'rational' people, confident in physical laws - the non-Euclidean geometry of R'lyeh or the Nameless City begins the process. In the Dream Cycle though, people who are happy to accept the Dreamlands (the non-rational 'dreamers') fare much better - Randolph Carter even meets and talks to Nyarlathotep and The High Priest (Hastur?).
     
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  13. Riso Arcane

    Riso
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    But didn't Nyarlathotep appear in a human form?
     
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  14. accismus Literate

    accismus
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    Oh yeah, he did. Well, as human as he ever is. That's a trippy story involving moon beasts and High Priests though, so he meets both otherwordly creatures and the beings they serve. Celephaïs is another example - dreamers and irrational people seem to have happy endings in Lovecraft's works in general.
     
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  15. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    I dunno, man. I consider myself to be a rational individual, but something like this wouldn't really faze me. If such things can exist, then clearly, the model we have of reality is incomplete and must be amended to account for this. It's just like people didn't all go completely crackers when they found out that time and space were related and one second wasn't necessarily the same everywhere, and nobody collapsed into a drooling wreck from the mind-bending implications of all this. Weirdness like this is NOTHING compared the weird shit that already exists. You want weird, you take a look at quantum mechanics. Alien beings from a different dimension in which the rules of reality don't match what we know works here? That just sounds like someone's next Nobel Prize. There's gotta be a way to invent a warp drive out of this. It's only mind-warping if you view science as a thing that IS rather than a thing that you DO.

    Then again, it's possible I am just already insane.
     
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  16. Destroid Arcane

    Destroid
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    Sure if your faculties are all running at full capacity there isn't really anything you could be shown that in a short period would make you go crazy, but if you consider your mind being altered to more of a dreamlike state it's more plausible.
     
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  17. accismus Literate

    accismus
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    Of course. That was the whole point. It began with Einstein, but even he didn't fully turn and didn't much like Quantum Mechanics. Have you seen our Feynman diagrams (Penguin Diagram)? Quantum Field Theory is our path to approach the Standard Model that is Cthulhu, but we speak not of the insane priests of String Theory Yog Sothoth.
     
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  18. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    I am pretty sure that being more drunk makes me even more impervious to anything truly mindblowing, since I will be too drunk to realize what I am seeing at all. I am pretty drunk, too. Plus, the "Dreamers" are supposed to be less adversely affected.
     
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  19. empyrean Scholar

    empyrean
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Why is [​IMG] changed to Rich Homie Cloaked? :bunkertime:
    The map and art assets seem to be coming along really well! Looking forward to the map builder and eventually the beta build.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015
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  20. KoolNoodles Arcane

    KoolNoodles
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    I'm liking some of the art. Some. I know they have a ton of assets, so probably hard to get as cohesive a look as some games. Damn....you know a game that really made me go "holy fucking shit" with its character/portrait/item art? Solium Infernum, and now Vic has shuttered up shop. He really had a knack for finding and using some great artists/assets(Armageddon Empires was pretty great as well in that area).

    :x
     
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  21. catfood AGAIN

    catfood
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    Can't wait for this.
     
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  22. Destroid Arcane

    Destroid
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    The new artwork looks great, especially Azlan, Karth and Moloch.
     
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  23. Grimgravy Augur Patron

    Grimgravy
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    Looking good.
     
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  24. Jaedar Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I assume he'll put good art in his board game too.

    And yes, this art is looking great. I am so hyped for this game.
     
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  25. Sranchammer Arcane

    Sranchammer
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    Looks promising.

    I'll check this out on Steam Bargains after the U.S. election
     
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