Vapourware That Which Sleeps - Vaporware Strategy RP

Good so far

 

Absolutely amazing video and probably the best one so far when it comes to bringing a lot of game elements into a cohesive whole without getting too technical about it. Gameplay video can't come out soon enough.

 

This is glory made manifest. Getting these nice King of Dragon Pass vibes. Keep us informed and the vids coming!

 

Are we finally getting a good and innovative strategy game? Sounds too good to be true!

 

I'm impressed. Again.

 

KingDinosaurGames

Did I miss something, or when did you TWS get static hand-drawn maps? Or is there an additional option, Procedural Mode, that produces a random scenario with various options to tick on or off?

 

The hand-drawn map you see is just a thematic overview (though at one point we were working with that artist to see if we could make hexes from her style). We spent an... excessive ... amount of time scrapping the existing (pre-made) map system from the KS to make the new hex-based system. We made it to be very lightweight and easy to mod, there's an old video of the early Map Editor on our youtube which gives you an idea or you can wait a bit to see the in-game footage which is more representative of where we are at now.

We still do heavily feature the pre-made scenarios, which are now built with our Map Editor. I feel strongly that a custom designed scenario is essential to experiencing a game like this, but with the addition of the dynamic map you can now sink continents, flood rivers, knock down mountains - this is what brought Moloch and Inatha back into the game as their abilities require the ability to manipulate the world itself.

As for Procedural it certainly exists, but it's the one stretch goal you won't see in the upcoming beta. While it's easy to just have the code plop in some cities and nations it's really a meaningless jumble right now, we'll need to invest a certain amount of time to ensure that the world creation is somewhat sensible. To support that we created a POC back in the KS that has a Genealogical process, instead of answering questions like in scenario selection you play out "a turn a generation" and get to shape the flow of cultures and nations as they develop over the Ages. It's very, very, very simple but it's still a nice way to customize your world - I think there's some screenshots somewhere of the prototype either on a KS update or on the forums somewhere.

 

KingDinosaurGames did I miss a mail somewhere, or are the design-an-event backer tiers still not available for submission?
I'm hoping to get the Codex of Prosperity included from mine. :3

 

Hyped for release!

 

I smell incline, keep doing good work, guys.

 

We have a post for it in the forums but most people are waiting for the Beta before submitting.

 

Latest update video looks great, really looking forward to see how the gameplay has progressed since the very early showings.

 

KingDinosaurGames

Question. I noticed you showing in the video that your Old One has names associated to them that might give away your true identity. Will it be possible to use that to our advantage? Such as by assuming an alias and pretending you're merely a powerful sorcerer, upstart leader, monster or lesser evil? Or how about killing an existing evil and pretending you're them, so that you're the "evil you know" and part of the status quo, rather an ancient power capable of conquering the world?
Diverting attention from your real plans with your fake identity. Making yourself look like a lesser threat so that big nations will leave you alone or think of you as competition, but not a threat to their existence. Or maybe acting more openly without being as suspicious, since you are a known quantity, while being more actively challenged in a way appropriate to your reputation, and having to be careful not to blow your cover, such as by killing a party that should have been way beyond what you are expected to be able to handle or acting in ways that hint at who you really are.
Kind of like how, for example, Sauron takes on different names and shapes, such as when he's biding his time as the Necromancer or when he's deceiving the Númenóreans as Annatar. Or like running a business as a front for some minor drug dealing, while actually being a major weapons importer. Layers of deception, basically.

 

Names are linked to tags which are then linked to each action/challenge/modifier/race, as these events occur they embed the tags into clues which can be deciphered by heroes and sages - all names for all Old Ones that are selectable for this scenario (counting all loaded Mods) are available for the AI to make its decisions based on. As tags accumulate and names are unearthed from ruins the AI can make "statements" that it believes X to be the case or it can more firmly make "declarations" that publicly say "The Fetid One is returning" - this doesn't necessarily return to Moloch himself but it does mean they will adapt to the strategies that the Fetid One would be pursuing. The original subtitle of the game was "The World Has Forgotten Your Name" and the idea is that these mythological names are the only way in which the AI can confront you.

By pursuing strategies that lead to other names you can deceive the AI and have them prepare for the wrong end-game challenges, but this does take time and also may somewhat neuter your own strategy since you are ignoring your abilities. However, the AI outside of the Alliance operates independently so in a large map you may have one continent that believes you are returning but the other may be completely mistaken in who it thinks is returning.

The concept of taking on different names as you describe is more what the Agents are for - Agents are not suspected to be "Agents of Evil" but instead will be understood by the AI as acting in their own interests until such a time as they are discovered to be (through clues or overt actions). If you are looking for an experience more like what you described as Sauron you'd probably want to play as Seraph who can manifest herself as avatars and present her return as a more benevolent salvation.

 

Man, the (expected) crappiness of Heroes 7 really bummed me out, That Which Sleeps can't come soon enough.

 

The art in this game is great. I love it. All the BBE's that you can play as look cool as fuck. I look forward the most to trying out Moloch. Turning the world into a primordial savage land sounds like it's right up my alley.

 

Ah, I see. In those terms what I was thinking of might fit under masking yourself as an agent. I'm guessing that's not possible then, though Seraph does sound fun to play with. I've avoided any info on the Old Ones so I'm not sure what her powers are exactly, but it sounds like it allows for trickery through something like manifesting an avatar to serve as an antagonist, so that a nation will accept help from a seemingly benevolent avatar or agent offering them gifts to turn the tide. That tag system is also interesting, does this mean that it’s possible for the player to try and plant false information in order to obscure the truth, such as spreading fake names and myths, trying to steer the heroes’ investigation towards other evils (or implicate one of the good rulers), or setting up one of your own agents as a scapegoat or upcoming dark lord? Just curious about to what extent we can manipulate clues to our advantage and hide ourselves with falsehoods.

It’s really neat how you describe knowledge as being so important, what with having the respective knowledge available to different factions truly matter for a change. Very few games allow you to meaningfully manipulate the flow of information, while that is one of the most important factors in any kind of conflict. It makes the AI sound a lot more grounded than what we usually get, unlike, for example, modern Civilisation entries, where the AI is simultaneously homicidal and suicidal. I'm also liking how systematic everything seems to be, which should help a lot with modding and making the different mechanics of each Old One feel like they have an effect on how you play the game (rather than just offering some different dialogue options).

 

I'm very excited for this. Told my friends. They be excited as well.

 

This sounds like it could be the game that replaces my Dominions 4 addiction. When I first heard about it, I got a bunch of ideas of "wouldn't it be cool if you could do x in that game", and pretty much every one has been mentioned in this thread. Btw, I do realize this game won't be much like Dominions, I'm just saying it sounds like something I'd enjoy enough to get me away from that game for awhile.

 

You should join our Codex Dominions4 gaming group here on the Codex. We could use some new blood.

 

Thanks for the invite! I think I found the proper sub-forum, I'll have a look around.

 

YUSS

 

Is it possible to 'make love' with heroes after you defeat them?

 

Modders will fix it.