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Bioshock Infinite - the $200 million 6 hour literally on rails interactive movie with guns thread

Tehdagah

Arcane
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
9,321
Levine: "She is my waifu and only mine! Stop!"

(...)
The themes and content of the game don't really support making her out as some sort of sex object, and even her cleavage outfit (Lady Comstock's dress) is obviously meant to have far more narrative repercussions than fan service ones.
(...)
:M

Is this "narrative repercussion" too?

elizabeth_backstory.jpg
 

Azarkon

Arcane
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,989
To be fair, the writing does try to actually show her transformation and does so in a fairly effective way. BioShock Infinite is in some respects a coming of age story for Elizabeth, and shows here turning from a naive girl into a hardened woman. The problem is that time compression (especially in the game's final act) makes this come on really sudden, where she goes from being still mostly the same normal old person, to some sort of fucking psy-ninja in about an hour's time.

I don't think the sexualizing of her was done specifically by Ken Levine, it probably has its roots more in the publisher's influence and/or the artists themselves. The themes and content of the game don't really support making her out as some sort of sex object, and even her cleavage outfit (Lady Comstock's dress) is obviously meant to have far more narrative repercussions than fan service ones. Making Elizabeth Booker's daughter and combining it with subtle romantic undertones may also have been intentional subversion and done to make the audience feel a bit uncomfortable.

In other words, I guess I think Ken Levine is a smart enough guy with enough integrity to not feature a blatant creepy sex doll character just to get his fans hard. I can see why it'd be read that way but I'm not so cynical that that was the intention. You can make similar arguments about any other female character in games, and with those the arguments are more compelling the less complexity and growth those characters have (i.e. the girl rival trainer from the Pokemon games, pretty sure Nintendo wasn't trying to turn her into loli bait, but that doesn't stop the Internet).

While Levine is an easy target, this motif has less to do with him than it has with the game developer community at large. I'm going to hazard an estimate here and say that a lot of the lead devs in the industry today are no longer the 20s-30s nerds they were, and with the advance of age, so changes one's perception of the opposite sex. At one stage the father instinct kicks in, and it's easy to see how dads/wannabe dads in theirs 40s are rather susceptible to the male paternal instinct.

I say this because there's been a lot of these types of characters in recent games. Not all of them exhibit the same degree of sexual tension that Elizabeth does, but they all serve the same purpose. The best examples that I've seen are -

Ellie in The Last of Us
Emily in Dishonored
Clementine in TWD
Eleanor in Bioshock 2, the Little Sisters in Bioshock 1
Tiny Tina in Borderlands 2, and Angel to a lesser degree

Course, PST beat all of this to it with Annah-of-Shadows, but that's not including the Japanese who have had a fetish for this motif from the time they started making games.

The demographic factor is especially obvious when you think about the gender of the child, which except for a few examples ie Heavy Rain, are practically all female.

IMO, this motif is due for a major subversion.
 

chestburster

Savant
Illiterate
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
711
about the gender of the child, which except for a few examples ie Heavy Rain, are practically all female.

I think one of the reasons for this is that females are easier to write:
--if you want player to feel sympathy for the female child, just write her as a cute adorable damsel in distress (see, e.g. Elizabeth, Emily, Little Sisters, Clementine);
--if you want shock factor, just make your little girl character say "fuck" a lot and kill a few bad guys in self-defense (see, e.g. Ellie, Tiny Tina to some extent).

Whereas, it's harder to write an adorable boy (are they ever adorable in real life?) and if you make said boy curse or kill, then he just turns into an average teenage punk. --So, better make them into bland hero characters controlled by the player so the target audience can "relate to" them.
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
Patron
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
18,697
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Didn't they reduce her boobs in the release game because of all the internet DRAMA in the first place?
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
Levine: "She is my waifu and only mine! Stop!"

(...)
The themes and content of the game don't really support making her out as some sort of sex object, and even her cleavage outfit (Lady Comstock's dress) is obviously meant to have far more narrative repercussions than fan service ones.
(...)
:M

Is this "narrative repercussion" too?

elizabeth_backstory.jpg

True. Just because someone inserts a narrative justification, that doesn't mean that it was the organic outcome of exploring the narrative and setting.
 

Borelli

Arcane
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
1,268
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
8,862
Location
Italy
Gamespot is desperate for clicks

Fixed.

This is the only explanation for this new trend of "rectifying" reviews.

Yeah, that's pretty fucking ridiculous. They gave it 9/10 at launch - saying "lol we were kidding, it's shit" 6 months after release doesn't make up for it.
It's like that thing Brother None was talking about. http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=37708
i seldom write for a mildly important italian website. i've been known for being crudely honest ever since i reviewed oblivion (which, in my opinion, i've been extremely kind with), that's the way i am and the way i like to be.
do you know what i get? figurative death threats from prs and literal death threats from fanboys.
on other sites, the most used argument against my bashes is " you can't talk ill of this game here in its topic, do it somewhere else".
there just can't be a bad game, anywhere, everything is good, even excellent, because many medias say so thus they must be right and nobody would dare to have an indipendent opinion. worse: nobody would dare to have a not commonly shared opinion.

corruption revels on stupidity, stupidity prospers under corruption. you just can't beat them. 10/10.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
Oho, "episode 2", "episode 3"
Are they planning to do that with every Elizabeth we saw in drowning scene?
More free stuff to watch on youtube :avatard:
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,322
Location
Jersey for now
Looks like shit.
Idiots trying to ape film noir.
Yeah, fully functioning Rapture, after Fontaine's death but before the madness.
Big fucking deal.
You got that goddamn gigantic fucking city in the sky, why not use that?
Oh wait, this game will take us to that world as well, won't it?
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
Looks like shit.
Idiots trying to ape film noir.
Yeah, fully functioning Rapture, after Fontaine's death but before the madness.
Big fucking deal.
You got that goddamn gigantic fucking city in the sky, why not use that?
Oh wait, this game will take us to that world as well, won't it?

Considering you made it clear dozens of pages ago you hate this game on spec for it's supposedly liberal messaging, why do you keep reading this thread? Just to vent?
 

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