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KickStarter The Banner Saga

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by CrustyBot, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. Burning Bridges Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

    Burning Bridges
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    How much money did the soundtrack cost anyway? I'm sure whole games could have been produced for much less.
     
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  2. Trash Pointing and laughing.

    Trash
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    Well, all I really want to know is if and when they'll announce the next part of this game. I really liked the first and hope they'll keep improving on the formula.
     
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  3. Doctor Sbaitso SO, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS. Patron

    Doctor Sbaitso
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    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands
    I am replaying this now and making some different choices. I really dig the aesthetics and feel. King of Dragon pass (lite) with combat. The hero quests in KoDP were bad ass.
     
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  4. MadMaxHellfire Arcane

    MadMaxHellfire
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    actually it's more kind of hero quest (lite) than kodp.
     
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  5. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    http://www.rpgamer.com/features/2014/interviews/bannersagaint.html

     
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  6. Blaine Cis-Het Oppressor Patron

    Blaine
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    The best part of this game was its art direction, because the combat mechanics, while tight and challenging, lack variety and are boring as fuck-all.
     
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  7. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Wow, no wonder Blaine doesn't like it. This game's combat and character systems are a masterwork of gamist/Sawyerist design. :incline: Roguey tuluse A must-play for my fellow balancefags.
     
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  8. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite Sawyerist Sawyer's Bride No Fun Allowed

    Roguey
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    But Josh didn't like it.

     
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  9. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Yeah, I can see why he wouldn't like it due to some elements of its basic design: health = strength, so if your characters get hit hard early you're looking at a death spiral, and the chess-like we go-they go turn-based system which leads to some unusual gameplay situations at the end of a battle.

    However, the way in which that design is implemented is very Sawyer. Extremely non-simulationist stats with clear "path of intent" and balance, no OP abilities, minimal randomness, damage threshold-based armor system, etc. It's a very good example of that design philosophy at work.
     
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  10. dryan Arcane

    dryan
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    Does that mean you don't like it?
     
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  11. Zed Codex Staff Patron

    Zed
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    this isn't sawyerist design, it just shares the trait of not being fun.
     
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  12. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    In typical RPG combat, you get excited by blowing up hordes of trash mobs with fireballs or doing something similarly OP.

    Banner Saga teaches you to become excited when you manage to chip down an enemy's armor and save up enough Willpower points to do 9 points of damage instead of just 3.

    I love it. But it's definitely not for everyone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
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  13. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    You know, for someone who hates Sawyer's guts, you're awfully similar to him in the way that you are able to craft universal laws about what is fun and not fun :M
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014
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  14. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite Sawyerist Sawyer's Bride No Fun Allowed

    Roguey
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    I never paid it much mind. It's in that lucky spot where I don't care enough about it to troll.
     
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  15. TheGreatOne Arcane

    TheGreatOne
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    He put 400 hours into Skyrim because Josh praised it. The concept of having an independent thought is completely alien to him. Unsurprisingly also a cultural marxist. Likely a devout muslim as well.
    And the end result is a dissapointing game that even Sawyer himself doesn't enjoy playing? Sounds very Sawyerian indeed.
     
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  16. dryan Arcane

    dryan
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    Have you finished it?
     
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  17. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite Sawyerist Sawyer's Bride No Fun Allowed

    Roguey
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    I'm still taking an extended break from Skyrim, but I hadn't quite hit triple digit hours when I stopped.

    Never even started.
     
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  18. TheGreatOne Arcane

    TheGreatOne
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    He doesn't play video games, he just checks a couple of PewDiePie Let's plays from youtube, checks if Josh Sawyer has played the game on Steam and/or tweeted about it and then decides whether the game has good design or not.
     
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  19. Zed Codex Staff Patron

    Zed
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    I didn't know having an opinion was the same as 'crafting universal laws'.
    By law, Russia is a shithole and techno music sucks. Mint and licorice is disgusting. Lost and Heroes are shitty TV shows. So many great laws, by my decree. :D

    I don't hate Sawyer's guys. Not at all. I like him. I just think he has the wrong (unbending) ideas for an Infinity Engine-like game.

    I haven't even played Banner Saga. It could be fun. What I wrote was just a potshot at Sawyer.
    Infinitron isn't really wrong either, but the big difference is that the Banner Saga uses a common TB design for a TB game, whereas Sawyer uses a common TB design for a RT game. I think that all Obsidian developers are, at heart, TB designers. They're just forced to make RT games for one reason or another.
     
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  20. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    The thing is that Banner Saga actually doesn't use a common TB design. It uses a very unusual one. Good design, controversial design goals.
     
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  21. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    oh so you just meant

    i am sorry i took your general statement as a general statement

    I know, as mine was a potshot of you. No one was harmed during these proceedings :)
     
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  22. Zed Codex Staff Patron

    Zed
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    Grunker you must be having constant headaches if you read everything on the codex as general statements :D

    as I understand it, strength = health and attack. I'd say that's the one uncommon design point. at least in computer rpgs.
     
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  23. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    No, the most important uncommon design point is the way the enemy always gets half the moves regardless of how many units they have left.

    You have ten guys, they have two guys, doesn't matter - those two guys get to move and attack between each of your moves. It's like chess only you don't get to choose which of your pieces moves - it still goes in round robin order.

    This makes a strong enemy straggler unit extremely dangerous to your guys if they're weakened, as he can wreak havoc while you have to waste time moving a bunch of guys who are on the other side of the map.
     
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  24. dryan Arcane

    dryan
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    Give it a try.
     
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  25. Copper Savant

    Copper
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    Source? Interested if he actually did a decent critical analysis of why he thought it sucked.

    Personal preference is fair enough,but I'd be disappointed if these were his actual issues Sure, you can go into a death spiral, but it's always your fault for putting your team in the wrong order, exposing low armour fighters to attack, etc., not random, and the we-go/they-go system also allows two largely intact characters turn the tides dramatically. Any character with low strength but decent armour can still threaten enemies by breaking armour, possibly causing a chain reaction or just things up, and the more fragile, potential high damage characters like the archers and warhawks have to be protected, sure, but are capable of causing massive carnage if you do. I agree the encounters could have done with more diversity, but the system as a whole felt quite elegant.
     
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