Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep - Director's Cut

[Serus]

Chess has no hit chance, your attacks always land, WTF is this oversimplified game for console retards.

Chess is a turn-based tactical game

Yes.

Yes, you might call it that but that's beside the point. Chess is not a computer rpg and that's irrefutable. Chess has ZERO simulation elements, it's a 100% abstract board game. Computer RPG might use some (or even a lot) of abstraction but they are not purely abstract games, unlike chess. Chess and CRPGs are two very different animals, what works for one doesn't have to work for the other.

In other words, from the fact that chess is a popular boardgame doesn't logically follow that BT4's combat is not oversimplified*. It's a non sequitur.



*I'm not saying that it is, just that the chess argument doesn't work.

 

[CryptRat]

Fuck it, I will play Pathfinder Kingmaker

Are you really that desperate?

 

[Darth Roxor]

i gotta say i also like how you have to heal yourself back to max hp when you put on new items with +constitution

How can you be sure this is purposeful design and not a bug?

i cant

still doesnt make it any less funny

 

[Nyast]

Game isn't a complete disaster for the few hours I've played but the lament of the UE4 engine as it sobs quietly at its complete mishandeling makes me sad.

Ups, just lost all items in my inventory out of the blue before entering a fight. Fight is over but my inventory is still empty. Last save point was almost 2 hours ago.

I guess game is unplayable, 0/10 piece of shit I hope Inxile burns to the ground. Rot in hell Fargo and every retarded pond scum programmer that worked on this trainwreck piece of diseased pigspit. Suck a bag of dicks. Die.

How is it possible ? There are saving points every 5 minutes. Where are you exactly ?

 

[ColCol]

Saw the combat and made the choice of first day buying (A rarity for me)


I like the combat and the exploration. I like the hearthstone-like feeling and is neat to see the combos you can build.


The design/look of the game reeks of borrowed assets. The Skill Tree is also really terrible.

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

Yes, you might call it that but that's beside the point. Chess is not a computer rpg and that's irrefutable.

Indeed. But what is an RPG?

Chess has ZERO simulation elements, it's a 100% abstract board game

It has simulation elements and they are abstract. There is no contradiction here.

Computer RPG might use some (or even a lot) of abstraction but they are not purely abstract games, unlike chess. Chess and CRPGs are two very different animals, what works for one doesn't have to work for the other.

Not really. it is just an abstraction spectrum. Some games more abstract some less. There are plenty of games even more abstract than chess.

In other words, from the fact that chess is a popular boardgame doesn't logically follow that BT4's combat is not oversimplified*. It's a non sequitur.



*I'm not saying that it is, just that the chess argument doesn't work.

What IHaveHugeNick is saying is that non-chance based games have a valid mechanics. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[aweigh]

Oh, once Pathfinder drops this thread will become a ghost town. 100% guaranteed.

 

[Darth Roxor]

i'm certain pathfinder will be worse than this tbhbbq

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Kit Walker beat me to it.

Chess having no hit chance has zero relation to whether Bard's Tale combat is shit or not. That much is obvious. Chess however, is a concrete proof that line of reasoning "no hit chance therefore shit" is moronic.

Don't get me wrong here, I have very little faith in InXile's ability to pull of some innovative combat system, given that so far combat is consistently where they are at their worst. But no-chance systems are absolutely valid and can work.

 

[aweigh]

Pathfinder has stats though, and real itemization, and chardev.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Pathfinder has stats though, and real itemization.

and is a rtwp adaptation of pnp rules, gee what could go ronk

 

[Revenant]

Pathfinder has stats though, and real itemization.

and is a rtwp adaptation of pnp rules, gee what could go ronk

Edgelord is correct. I don't get why these people want to make RTwP games from TB rulesets.

because fucking rooskies mang, they worship RTwP because of their obsession over BG

 

[Serus]

Kit Walker beat me to it.

Chess having no hit chance has zero relation to whether Bard's Tale combat is shit or not. That much is obvious. Chess however, is a concrete proof that line of reasoning "no hit chance therefore shit" is moronic.

Don't get me wrong here, I have very little faith in InXile's ability to pull of some innovative combat system, given that so far combat is consistently where they are at their worst. But no-chance systems are absolutely valid and can work.

I never said that "no hit chance therefore shit" though. And yes, perhaps it can work, it's a valid opinion. However, and this is my point, if you really want't to give an example where it actually does work - then give an example that is relevant and makes sense. Which means in a CRPG. Giving chess as example is irrelevant and pointless because those are very different genres. Bringing chess is like saying that romance in crpg might work because it works... in soap operas.

 

[V_K]

Chess having no hit chance has zero relation to whether Bard's Tale combat is shit or not. Chess however, is a concrete proof that any line of reasoning "no hit chance therefore shit" is moronic.

But where have you seen this line of reasoning exactly? Lack of hit chance is just a cherry on top of the pile, composed of a primitive stat system, lack of damage variation and primitive equipment. Given all that, the only interesting options in combat could come from field manipulation, but they fucked it up too by making the combat field too small.

 

[Kruno]

When I was at university I did make chess and gave pieces hit points and hit ratios and things like that thinking I was improving the game. I just didn't have the business sense of Fargo to call it an improvement to Chess. It would have been called Chess 2.0.

 

[mondblut]

experiments with innovative mechanics because he thinks his audience is sophisticated and this isn't 1985

If "innovative mechanics" you "experiment" with are fucking garbage, blame yourself.

 

[MicoSelva]

As for "is this flopping?", let me just say that the game is currently being played by less than 1500 people on Steam. T:ToN (which did flop) had over 7000 concurrent players after release.

 

[aweigh]

If a mechanic is a regression then by definition it cannot be innovative.

Meanwhile...

http://www.devilwhiskey.com

 

[mondblut]

RPGphilistinecodex - champions, activists, and ensurers of absolute decline with a dream to usher in a progressive future free of deplorable genres like crpgs.

Better to die standing than to live on your knees (and with a giant dildo up your ass).

 

[Jimmious]

As for "is this flopping?", let me just say that the game is currently being played by less than 1500 people on Steam. T:ToN (which did flop) had over 7000 concurrent players after release.

The genre is the nichest RPG genre in existence.
Hell, Bard's Tale was not even the most famous blobber back in the day. I doubt most new gamers even knew about it when the KS was announced.
Torment on the other hand has a legendary status and if you play one CRPG you are bound to hear about it eventually

 

[V_K]

As for "is this flopping?", let me just say that the game is currently being played by less than 1500 people on Steam. T:ToN (which did flop) had over 7000 concurrent players after release.

The genre is the nichest RPG genre in existence.

Didn't stop MMX from having 8k peak concurrent players.

 

[mondblut]

Indeed. But what is an RPG?

A game that plays sufficiently like D&D, dummy.

What IHaveHugeNick is saying is that non-chance based games have a valid mechanics.

Maybe, but they sure as hell DON'T play sufficiently like D&D, and shouldn't pretend otherwise.

 

[mondblut]

If a mechanic is a regression then by definition it cannot be innovative.

Meanwhile...

http://www.devilwhiskey.com

Thanks for reminding me of Devil Whiskey. That's what sane people should play instead of Bard's (under)Tail.

 

[Revenant]

Indeed. But what is an RPG?

A game that plays sufficiently like D&D, dummy.

D&D is, like, the shittiest RPG of all time

 

[mondblut]

Indeed. But what is an RPG?

A game that plays sufficiently like D&D, dummy.

D&D is, like, the shittiest RPG of all time

Go play with your mom's dildos instead, duh.