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Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep - Director's Cut

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
12,859
It's interesting to live in a time where gamers are vocal about games being too short and about games being too long. "100+ hours of gameplay" used to be a selling point. That appears to be changing.
Probably because people want as many lewt achievements as possible and completions. I know a guy who only finishes games the most straightforward path then chucks the game literally into the trash. Guess having lots of $$ spoils some. Yeah, he hates long games. I Sent him to here:

https://playtictactoe.org/

Said this is about your speed.
 
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theSavant

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
Important note! The previous "bug" where the whole party started in Stealth Mode due to a single Rogue who has skilled up to being an 'Infiltrator', does not work anymore. Unfortunately.

Now it only works for "the Rogue + 2 adjacent allies" (as in the description), and only for 1 round.


Now think about how many people used a party setup like this:
- 2 Fighters
- 2 Practitioners
- 1 Bard
- 1 Rogue

They had everything in the party. They could pre-buff in stealth without getting attacked and then steamroll everything. But now with the skill working correctly this bonus doesn't work anymore. There are 2 choices now:

EITHER it means:
- you need to have 2 Rogues to stealth the whole party
- which means you have to remove the bard, a practitioner or a fighter
- which means you have considerably less options to choose from (think about missing bard-buffs)
- which means you need to create weird tactical positions (because stealth applies only to "adjacent allies": adjacent is ONLY the slots left and right of the Rogue. Neither up, down, nor diagonal slots are stealthed... which probably requires you to mess up your default tactical positions)

OR it means:
- you have only 1 Rogue... and 1 Bard instead of the other Rogue. But then beware, because all the "nice pre-buffing" in stealth mode only works for 2 characters, while the others already get attacked. This can make some boss fights a pain in the ass.

Basically this "fix" changed everything. All these guys who played the game before the patch (including live streamers praising the game), did profit from the bug and had "a nice day", while everyone playing the game after the patch will have "a worse day" because of more frustrating fights. I'm especially annoyed because I wanted to get the game over with quickly, but now it stretches even longer and will become even more frustrating.
 
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Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Nerfing Infiltrator is probably a good thing. It was just stupidly powerful and trivialized late-game battles even further.

Also - if you don't enjoy the game, drop it. What's the use in playing something you don't like?
 
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theSavant

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
It's like an obligation to play it. Once at least. After all I've backed it at kickstarter... cannot drop it as simply.

:negative:

Btw. after creating a completely new party (and with 2 Rogues providing full party stealth) Mangar was indeed finished in 2 rounds... amazing. And I really thought my previous party was good enough. But no... it was crap. Impossible to win the fight. Choose the "wrong" skills and you'll end up in a deadlock.

But which skills are "wrong" and which not? Makes one think...
I think the skills which are required to make it through the game are very specific. And it will probably always come down to the same couple of skills, otherwise you end up in a deadlock.
I think the same applies to the party configurations required to make it through the game. It will probably always come down to very similar configurations, otherwise you end up in a deadlock.

You'd think you have plenty of choices to build characters and configure partys, but you have not. It's very deceiving.

Anyways... I hope this party can continue further successfully. Now I can sleep again.
 

Curratum

Guest
Come on, man, I'm terrible at turn-based tactics and I managed to beat Mangar with my shitty, semi-randomly skilled party (2 fighters, rogue, practitioner). Granted, that was on normal, but come on!
 
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theSavant

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Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
Lucky you, man. Imo Mangar (when you meet him the second time in Sulphur Springs) is the first partybreaker boss, because he can instakill the whole party with 1 single spell. If you beat him, it means you must have chosen much more of the "right" skills for your party.
My previous party had 2 fighters, 2 practitioners, 2 rogues... and he still instakilled all of them. Every single time. It's hilarious. My new party is.... uhm... also 2 fighters, 2 practitioners, 2 rogues but skilled mostly differently. And now it was me who killed him easily. Which showed me that many skills of the previous party are practically useless.
 
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Curratum

Guest
Sorry, my bad, I assumed you meant the first time you fight his wraith, because you said new party, so I thought this was near the start of the game.

I am not yet at the proper Mangar fight, currently doing Inshriach.
 
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theSavant

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Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
Ah okay... that's why I mentioned it explicitely again. Yeah, that first encounter I also beat after my 2nd or 3rd try. Everything was fine back then :)
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Although, to be fair, not knowing exactly which skills and combinations thereof will work out in the end is not that uncommon in games, esp. RPGs.
 
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Sinatar

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
569
Lucky you, man. Imo Mangar (when you meet him the second time in Sulphur Springs) is the first partybreaker boss, because he can instakill the whole party with 1 single spell. If you beat him, it means you must have chosen much more of the "right" skills for your party.
My previous party had 2 fighters, 2 practitioners, 2 rogues... and he still instakilled all of them. Every single time. It's hilarious. My new party is.... uhm... also 2 fighters, 2 practitioners, 2 rogues but skilled mostly differently. And now it was me who killed him easily. Which showed me that many skills of the previous party are practically useless.

You know you can stop that spell right? Just kill the things he summons and he can't cast it.
 
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theSavant

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
Lucky you, man. Imo Mangar (when you meet him the second time in Sulphur Springs) is the first partybreaker boss, because he can instakill the whole party with 1 single spell. If you beat him, it means you must have chosen much more of the "right" skills for your party. Which showed me that many skills of the previous party are practically useless.

You know you can stop that spell right? Just kill the things he summons and he can't cast it.

:lol: I tried that, but couldn't even kill his spell bubbles quickly enough. He still got me in the 3rd or 4th round. Even though I made it through all the battles in the game successfully. Like I said, it's hilarious how badly you can skill your party even though you think it's decent. It's that "skill-puzzle" you have to solve too... :roll:
 
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theSavant

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
I have finished the game now. And do not plan to touch it again.

My rating is: :5/5::0/5: 5/10

And this is generous. Actually it's more a 4/10. Maybe I could have enjoyed it a bit more, if I had a good computer and ultra graphics. For the benefit of doubt I gave it a 5th point. That said, I think ratings from 4-6 are honest.


What really annoyed me:
- Too many dumb, repetitive puzzles. It often feels like they didn't know what content to put in, and then always decided to put yet another puzzle in. Clearly a sign that the game should be shorter.
- Ridiculously, artificially stretched leveldesign (especially Forest of Inshriach, but also ruins at Castle Langskaal). Clearly a sign that the game should be shorter.
- Always the same enemies, always the same fights. Clearly a sign that the game should be shorter.

Imo inXile‘s slogan „underpromise and overdeliver“ went the wrong way. They should have stayed at „underpromise“ (which was an announced 20-25 hours gameplay at the kickstarter. The game probably had a healthy size back then, but then they decided to bloat it with annoying fillerstuff, so it reached 40-60 hours… /facepalm. It's exactly like felipepe mentioned in his review: they had content for a good 10-hour-game (ok, let's say a 20-hour-game), but then broke it by stretching and exaggerating it with that fillerstuff. And you really feel that in the game. This undermines the whole gaming experience. And I also agree with him that this can't be fixed by simple patches anymore.


Various notes I took:
- Went to the optional Dwarven Mines and saw: puzzle platform, puzzle platform, block puzzle platform… kthxbye
- Was really annoyed that the skill "Last Breath" did not work correctly (allowed a fighter to instakill an enemy below certain healthpoints). The threshold grew with strength and I could sweep enemies with 70 healthpoints - except that I couldn't. It was disabled for the first 2 rounds or so. When the skill eventually activated, the battle was already decided.
- I could skip 2 puzzles in the game due to a bug. It was that puzzle with mirrored blocks that open a hole in the ground (almost at the end). After reloading the game (don't remember why I did that) the puzzle froze in midair and the hole was open for access. I was glad.
- After all the praise about the soundtrack, I'm rather disappointed: I found only 1-2 songs enjoyable. One of them was the one starting with "Skara Brae is burning" sung by Rabbie, but most others like ambient music, battle music are while ok rather forgettable. And the washerwomen- or sailorchoirs are just "bleh".
- Briefly tried out gridmode: works, but does not really fit into this environment, does not really make sense, just feels wrong.
- Combat animations „decoupled“ from player input? Nah. Didn‘t feel like that. Peculiar delays and then suddenly all play at once.
- I was following mostly the guidebook, because I had no patience for these puzzles anymore. However the description is sometimes sparse (and even wrong), so you have to get your mind sucked into various puzzles anyway.
- Fuck these unskippable video sequences and boss babbling. Almost wants me press Alt+F4.
- Party banter was ok
- Wait... wasn't there something about puzzle weapons? I solved one at the beginning of the game, but then totally forgot about them.
- All these shrines where you can make offerings using the codewheel I have ignored. What for anyways?


Notes about my party configuration:
Eventually my exchanged party (2 fighters, 2 rogues, 2 practitioners) gave me some enjoyment. Mostly because it made fights easier and let me finish the game quicker (it still took me 41 hours according to the timestamp). And yeah, I have used that "Infiltrator skill" for the Rogues. Even though you need now 2 Rogues (instead of 1 before the patch) to be fully stealthed, it's worth it. You really need that first round being stealthed for "Meditating" and "Razor Strop". Otherwise you're just not ready for battle. Makes me think how party configurations play out without this? Possibly crap.
Btw I exchanged my whole previous party at Level 16. It was already possible then to give the Rogues that "Infiltrator" skill. And fighters could already be skilled to „Guardian“ and had an Ancestral Plate Armor equipped by default. Also stripped all other possible recruitable members naked and took their precious equipment for my custom party. Needs none of these other characters anyway. Party was a breeze compared to my previous one.


Notes about experimental, exotic party configurations:
- Full Trow Rogue Party: All start stealthed. All attack and then immediately hide again. If someone lands a kill, party gets opportunity back. Sounds funny, doesn‘t it?
- Full Battlemage party: All concentrating on physical damage spells and melee attacks. The melee attacks could break enemy armor, and the additional physical damage spells could produce area damage. In my party above I only concentrated on Mental Damage spells (like „Mind Jab“) however. I found Physical Damage spells not appealing. That‘s because almost all of them (Warstrike and Summoning) require prior channeling. Channeling just takes too long to get going in the heat of a battle. Maybe however it‘s different, when your Practitioners chooses the meditation skillpath with „Quick Thinking“? Maybe then he can cast „Warstrike“ immediately? Anyone knows?

I will not try these out soon though (if ever). The thought of dealing with all the bloated crap in the game again kills it for me. Which is sad. Because the party- and combat-mechanics are somewhat interesting.
 
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Curratum

Guest
Mate, the game is a 5/10 on the merits of its visuals and location design and the OST alone, even if it was just a slideshow with tunes playing in the background. Anything else is just adding to this. Stop playing modern games on a shoebox.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
12,859
How odd. My laptop rests on an unopened Sunkist mandoline slicer set (not a shoebox so I see why these games don’t work for me).

I’m curious if there was ever a pnp Bard’s Tale game. Surprised they didn’t decide to do so. (And it’s not quite like D&D With the bard, hunter, arch Mage shiz)
 
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theSavant

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
So I found the OST on youtube. Only song I wanted to re-listen was that "Skara Brae is Burning"... original title "Across the Seven Realms".

But WTF is that: the song in the OST sounds totally flat, slow and boring. Totally different to the one in the game, sung by Rabbie. I mean wtf?! Why do they put a worse track on the OST?!
Even when the game is over it keeps on "wtf-ing" people...
 
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aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
Anyone else using the Temporal Anti-Aliasing option and getting "ghosting" when moving the camera around corners and the like? And no, it's not the motion blur option I'm referring to.

EDIT: Also anyone else sometimes get a pause/hiccup when opening the party menu (right-click)? I want to figure out if it's because it's installed on a mechanical HDD, or if it's because I can't run 'High' texture setting (overloading VRAM).

Thanks in advance! #GamersRiseUp
 
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aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
Too bad really cos it's an amazing tool for getting rid of texture shimmer and texture crawl. I love it on the games that have it.
 

TheImplodingVoice

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
1,955
Location
Embelyon
Don't know if I should start this or Underworld Ascendant. I know UA pretty much reviewed shit and doesn't seem great, I just want to start it to get it over with instead of it just sitting in my library forever.
 

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