Sacred82
Self-Ejected
3 attributes people. Even Diablo clones offer at least that much. It's really not hard to do.
Did you enjoy Diablo 3 by any chance?In that light, it's hard to call this "half-assed" because the card game doesn't look bad at all. Think of it as building a deck instead of building a party and you'll have the right mindset to enjoy this.
Building a deck is for cucks mate. real men build character.Think of it as building a deck instead of building a party and you'll have the right mindset to enjoy this.
They certainly could have made an effort to at least fake a callback to old school RPG systems. I'd love to see 10+ meaningful stats on the character sheet.3 attributes people. Even Diablo clones offer at least that much. It's really not hard to do.
It's OK if you only enjoy hard core number crunching RPGs, it really is. If that's you, and this goes for anyone reading this, bail out on BT4 now. I was disappointed too - but then I looked at what the game actually is and asked whether they did a good job of it. So far it looks like they did. "Soft core RPGs" are missing something we want, but they're not necessarily bad. And frankly AAADDD combat isn't some divine perfection of the form, it's just what you played when you were 12.Did you enjoy Diablo 3 by any chance?In that light, it's hard to call this "half-assed" because the card game doesn't look bad at all. Think of it as building a deck instead of building a party and you'll have the right mindset to enjoy this.
Disagree. Card games are fun. Try one sometime.Building a deck is for cucks mate. real men build character.Think of it as building a deck instead of building a party and you'll have the right mindset to enjoy this.
To be honest, my problem is less with deck-building aspects than with skill trees that get shoved up every arse these days, irrespective of whether they fit a particular game's style. It's a dumb system that works for Diablo clones and MMOs, but should have no place in proper RPGs.It's OK if you only enjoy hard core number crunching RPGs, it really is. If that's you, and this goes for anyone reading this, bail out on BT4 now. I was disappointed too - but then I looked at what the game actually is and asked whether they did a good job of it. So far it looks like they did. "Soft core RPGs" are missing something we want, but they're not necessarily bad. And frankly AAADDD combat isn't some divine perfection of the form, it's just what you played when you were 12.
The first Bard's Tale, which is the only game in the series that I have any experience with, did not have incredible combat, no, and this might well turn out better. The thing I liked best though was the map design, and as you note yourself InXile are unlikely to do anything even resembling that, let alone improve on it.And frankly AAADDD combat isn't some divine perfection of the form, it's just what you played when you were 12.
I like skill trees okay, depends on the game. It makes sense here as the abilities are essentially the "cards" you're building your "deck" with. Plus there are passive bonuses and yes even stat bonuses mixed in there. It's honestly far more interesting than "you levelled up, no decision to be made, now your fighter has +2% hit points and +1.4% chance to hit".To be honest, my problem is less with deck-building aspects than with skill trees that get shoved up every arse these days, irrespective of whether they fit a particular game's style. It's a dumb system that works for Diablo clones and MMOs, but should have no place in proper RPGs.
Yeah, jury's still out on map design and my hopes aren't high. Playing the alpha/demo, the environment feels much "bigger" and blockier, mapped out with crayons instead of pencils, ruler, exacto knife. If that makes sense. They even had "decorative" doors that don't open in the alpha, it's like, jesus christ. I complained about this and they said in the real game those doors will open and lead to a more elaborate, branching layout. Trying to keep an open mind but like I said, my hopes aren't high.The first Bard's Tale, which is the only game in the series that I have any experience with, did not have incredible combat, no, and this might well turn out better. The thing I liked best though was the map design, and as you note yourself InXile are unlikely to do anything even resembling that, let alone improve on it.
Wiz 8 is my gold standard for sure. Honestly ... and I'm thinking it through as I'm typing this ... again BT4 combat will be different from Wiz 8, but not worse. You haven't played card games, so you don't know the joy of combining things, countering things at just the right time, setting up with one card to knock down with a perfect combo ... trust me, it's fun as hell when it's done well. "Is it RPG?" Maybe not, but it's good.Truth be told I wasn't so crazy about Bard's Tale 1, and if InXile had been developing the exact same game today I wouldn't be over the moon about it. I was hoping though that when they inevitably stripped Bard's Tale 4 of mapping challenges that they'd make up for it with better combat/chardev, a la Wiz 8 (and arguably 6 and 7 as well).
Fighters (and rogues) yes, but for hybrid classes there's the dilemma of spellcasting vs melee capability, and for classes like monk you can decide to go for pure damage or critical hits, etc. I'll concede that most of the decision-making happens at character generation.well, in Wiz 8 yes, stats were finer grain, but was there decision making? The only significant decision was spell selection. Fighters etc. were pretty much "wind up and go".
I don't agree with the need for "active" characters, I think ones that rely on passive abilities, like Wiz fighters, are perfectly fine in a party based game. And isn't the thing you're talking about just shuffling the decision making away from choosing classes over to choosing what your class will do? There are only four, after all - not enough to even have a party of all different classes. It's like that thing PoE was supposed to do, which with nine (?) classes was a pipe dream IMO. With four it's manageable.BT4 will be all about choosing good "cards" to make your party perform the way you want ... and for every character, not just spellcasters, which is huge incline in my opinion.
I hope you're right. If you are, I'll be getting this for sure.It may look like a coloring book but I'm hopeful it's a substantial, tough card game.
I meant that you have to make decisions about how to build your fighters at all. In Wiz 8 it's crank Strength and Con, crank Melee and Sword (or axe, big freakin difference). Here you'll choose stuff like do I want knockback abilities, passive damage distribution, single target, sweeps ... you can still have a fighter with just one big "hit him" card and tons of tanking passives, or a big bag of tricks with knockback and party rearrangement ... I don't know, it just seems like building every character will be fun and meaningful, not just the magic-users.I don't agree with the need for "active" characters, I think ones that rely on passive abilities, like Wiz fighters, are perfectly fine in a party based game.
Jury's still out. It's not four classes, it's four "archetypes", each of which have 4-6 "subclasses" to specialize in. You can mix and match or make a "pure Paladin" or whatever. This is going to come down to how scarce skill points are. I expect a Practicioner (Sorcerer) and a Practitioner (Magician) will be just as different as a Sorc and Mag in the original games. Probably much moreso.And isn't the thing you're talking about just shuffling the decision making away from choosing classes over to choosing what your class will do? There are only four, after all - not enough to even have a party of all different classes. It's like that thing PoE was supposed to do, which with nine (?) classes was a pipe dream IMO. With four it's manageable.
I'll be posting my thoughts once it comes out. My biases are on my sleeve so hopefully you can interpret my impressions accordingly.I hope you're right. If you are, I'll be getting this for sure.It may look like a coloring book but I'm hopeful it's a substantial, tough card game.
You shouldn't pump axe, axes are crap. You're attributing too much choice to wiz 8 there, buddyIn Wiz 8 it's crank Strength and Con, crank Melee and Sword (or axe, big freakin difference)
Yep, but since there are so few classes, picking a subclass within an archetype may be the equivalent of choosing between classes like fighter, rogue, monk etc. within the role of "melee oriented party member" in Wiz 8. We'll see.I don't know, it just seems like building every character will be fun and meaningful, not just the magic-users.
That is the official line, yes. From watching the video, however, the subclasses seem to me like just another skill or passive bonus, like an expanded version of Wiz 8 races. As class-based systems go, this seems very "loose", if you know what I mean.It's not four classes, it's four "archetypes", each of which have 4-6 "subclasses" to specialize in.
Looking forward to hearing them, you're a trustworthy sort.I'll be posting my thoughts once it comes out. My biases are on my sleeve so hopefully you can interpret my impressions accordingly
Thing is, while skill trees might make fighters more interesting, they do it at the cost of making other classes boring. First, they all now play the same - use active ability, wait out a cooldown, rinse and repeat. Second, skill trees do not lend well to non-combat aspects of gameplay - they either get cut completely or relegated to gimmicks. And in (good) blobbers these aspects are as important as combat, because blobbers are about surviving the whole dungeon rather than individual encounters.I meant that you have to make decisions about how to build your fighters at all. In Wiz 8 it's crank Strength and Con, crank Melee and Sword (or axe, big freakin difference). Here you'll choose stuff like do I want knockback abilities, passive damage distribution, single target, sweeps ... you can still have a fighter with just one big "hit him" card and tons of tanking passives, or a big bag of tricks with knockback and party rearrangement ... I don't know, it just seems like building every character will be fun and meaningful, not just the magic-users.
Sure. Don't disagree with any of that.Thing is, while skill trees might make fighters more interesting, they do it at the cost of making other classes boring. First, they all now play the same - use active ability, wait out a cooldown, rinse and repeat. Second, skill trees do not lend well to non-combat aspects of gameplay - they either get cut completely or relegated to gimmicks. And in (good) blobbers these aspects are as important as combat, because blobbers are about surviving the whole dungeon rather than individual encounters.
3:30 character creation spotlight video!
As expected, fairly simplistic stuff: pick abase class'archetype' from 4 choices, pick aspecial abilityrace'culture' from 7 choices, pick a portrait and voice from ? choices, then go to the skill tree which could be decently interesting.
Modern buttons and layout are completely out of tune with this game.
Modern buttons and layout are completely out of tune with this game.
Exactly. How hard can it be to create a combat grid that looks like stone, metal, vines, whatever. Instead you get this scifi look.