The codex is full of infinity engine fanboys and apologists

[PorkBarrellGuy]

The age old question: how many retadreds can one man harvest?

That Mrfffkndf or whatever dude put up a better show with his Fallout 2 thread.

Unfortunately he didn't understand when his joke had run its course and proceeded to hang around like a fart in an elevator until I presume Codex staff decided to escort him from the premises or something, haven't seen him in a while

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

The age old question: how many retadreds can one man harvest?

That Mrfffkndf or whatever dude put up a better show with his Fallout 2 thread.

Unfortunately he didn't understand when his joke had run its course and proceeded to hang around like a fart in an elevator until I presume Codex staff decided to escort him from the premises or something, haven't seen him in a while

Last Activity:
Yesterday at 4:43 PM

He's probably building some motivation for another epic thread.

 

[nobre]

Reminder that people who dislike RTwP are too stupid to use the auto-pause settings effectively.

 

[King Crispy]

The first games that seemed to make a serious effort at reproducing the feeling of having little metal figurines representing your D&D characters on the screen were the Gold Box games. They were great. It was so cool to see your little fighter equipped with his little sword and his shield and his armor. And your little thief with his dagger, backstabbing people. Et cetera. But when combat was done you switched back to blobber mode, which all of us accepted. All was right with the world.

Then came along BG with its higher levels of detail and its more intent focus on the """"""""""""story""""""""""". I mean we had to deal with Imoen and this faggot Sarevok and the weirdness of lawnmowing each wilderness zone, but we accepted it. I think most of us felt that BioWare brought us some incline at that point? I guess?

ToEE comes along next thanks to Troika. This one was almost too good to be true! Incredible, turn-based, miniatures-faithful D&D with no holds barred this time! But oh my God were there some massive problems with this one. Major bugs, missing content, almost non-existent campaign/storyline, but it was great while it lasted.

Oh ho ho now enter Josh Sawyer and his dark promises, next. "Pillars of Eternity". Oh, what a snazzy title. It's not D&D, but it's supposedly the best of Gold Box and the best of Infinity and the BALANCE and the DEPTH and the H'Y'WPRA D'W'YRPA and these lost souls and fuck me! It's going to be awesome, right? Wrong. It sucked. Some people ate that shit up like they were starving peasants but that was mostly due to the long gap between these games that simulate our precious little miniature metal figurines representing our precious D&D characters. Oh, and then we get to put them on a pirate ship! Oh, gee!

Well, let me tell you something. Next you get some crazy Russian weirdos calling themselves OwlCat who -- what the fuck? -- actually manage to do something right as Russians for a change. Yes, I know, it's RTwP, but it somehow doesn't feel like it. D&D rounds are being faithfully represented. Yes, there are some significant bugs. But every single great RPG had them when it was first released. Every single one. The attention to detail in this game is astounding. Is it truly a great computer roleplaying game? That is up for debate. But it is the best representation of our precious metal figurine D&D since ToEE, and it's got a great campaign replete with kingdom management, it has character backgrounds, it has C&C, it has a simple yet serviceable story, and has even more attention to detail.

So what is it that I'm trying to say here? I'm saying fuck you, Josh.

 

[Brancaleone]

Have you ever heard the phrase: "don't feed the troll"? Well, neither did many other Codexers apparently.
And neither did I for that matter, when I think about it.

It would be immoral for the Codex to let trolls starve to death.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

Have you ever heard the phrase: "don't feed the troll"? Well, neither did many other Codexers apparently.
And neither did I for that matter, when I think about it.

It would be immoral for the Codex to let trolls starve to death.

We are not under any sort of obligation to feed them, as they are not our wards. That being said, it's not a completely one-sided transaction.

 

[Luckmann]

I answered yes, because the question is whether they're overrated or not, and truth be told, they usually are, especially by an industry in which the vast majority probably hasn't even played them.

That said, they are pretty fucking good, and I'd recommend pretty much all of them to anyone, if it wasn't for the "Enhanced" Editions.

 

[Brancaleone]

Have you ever heard the phrase: "don't feed the troll"? Well, neither did many other Codexers apparently.
And neither did I for that matter, when I think about it.

It would be immoral for the Codex to let trolls starve to death.

We are not under any sort of obligation to feed them, as they are not our wards. That being said, it's not a completely one-sided transaction.

But they are our emoticons.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

Have you ever heard the phrase: "don't feed the troll"? Well, neither did many other Codexers apparently.
And neither did I for that matter, when I think about it.

It would be immoral for the Codex to let trolls starve to death.

We are not under any sort of obligation to feed them, as they are not our wards. That being said, it's not a completely one-sided transaction.

But they are our emoticons.

When you think about it, really, it's a pittance to feed them and the result is so amusing. Not wholly unlike tossing popcorn to pigeons in the park.

 

[Brancaleone]

Have you ever heard the phrase: "don't feed the troll"? Well, neither did many other Codexers apparently.
And neither did I for that matter, when I think about it.

It would be immoral for the Codex to let trolls starve to death.

We are not under any sort of obligation to feed them, as they are not our wards. That being said, it's not a completely one-sided transaction.

But they are our emoticons.

When you think about it, really, it's a pittance to feed them and the result is so amusing. Not wholly unlike tossing popcorn to pigeons in the park.

Ok, it was just a joke on the fact that the Codex has a troll as a symbol.

But seriously, don't feed the trolls, people! And drive home safely!

 

[Bruma Hobo]

OP's position was non-controversial not so long ago, but now the IE games are regarded as classics instead of the dumbed-down hack and slash shlock they are. This proves that small communities can't stop decline, sooner or later the enemy will infiltrate your ranks and subvert your most valuable principles. And you know, after a couple of decades of decline they don't look so bad, they're better games than their successors, right? That must prove than the IE games are classics.

Oblivion's next, people here is already starting to feel nostalgic for it, and it's certainly a better and more complex game than whatever Bethesda is developing right now, so of course it will soon be cherished as an old-school classic by those who grew up playing it.

 

[Roguey]

Safav if you want to channel classic 2002-2006 Codex, you have to talk about how they're utterly terrible compared to holy Fallout and also Jagged Alliance 2 to a lesser extent I guess. Flip a coin with regard to Arcanum.

 

[Okagron]

Oblivion's next, people here is already starting to feel nostalgic for it, and it's certainly a better and more complex game than whatever Bethesda is developing right now, so of course it will soon be cherished as an old-school classic by those who grew up playing it.

I sure as hell never gonna do that, no matter how bad Bethesda games get. I'm always gonna consider Oblivion to be major decline.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Safav if you want to channel classic 2002-2006 Codex, you have to talk about how they're utterly terrible compared to holy Fallout and also Jagged Alliance 2 to a lesser extent I guess. Flip a coin with regard to Arcanum.

I'm open to suggestions. Send them to my inbox.

 

[fantadomat]

I'm going to start my own codex, and degenerate RTwP fans are not invited!

Infinitron ,clearly silver coin intends to be your competition. Now is the time to strike him as old jew tradition dictates! Don't come back crying when he takes half your shekel income in a year or two. Will you let other "people" shake your money making tree?

 

[Dyspaire]

DIE

 

[Mustawd]

I'm going to start my own codex, and degenerate RTwP fans are not invited!

Post link plz.

RTwP is trash.

 

[Mustawd]

OP's position was non-controversial not so long ago, but now the IE games are regarded as classics instead of the dumbed-down hack and slash shlock they are. This proves that small communities can't stop decline, sooner or later the enemy will infiltrate your ranks and subvert your most valuable principles.

You know it was bad when we had a Bioware subforum here. FFS, wtf is wrong with these ppl?

 

[deuxhero]

They're all overrated except Planescape Torment thanks to focusing on awful combat. Planescape Torment wisely puts a minimum emphasis on the horrible combat and instead focuses on a nice story.

 

[Roguey]

I'm open to suggestions. Send them to my inbox.

Rosh was one of the kings of Bio-hatred.

It was partly my fault, I know. My characters were built for roleplaying reasons (mistake!), not maximum efficiency (though I had all the bases covered... 3 fighting types, a rogue, a cleric, and a mage).

That says it all. I think it would be a fair indication that Icewind Dale II is definitively lacking in the RPG department.

Oddly enough, the <b>Control</b> part of <a href="http://icewind2.blackisle.com">IWD2</a> got a <b>90%</b>.. Isn't pathfinding part of <i>control</i>?

There's pathfinding in an Inbred Engine game? Nobody told me this. Where is it?

And to point out, again, the above is me. Who else has such a deep-set loathing of the Inbred Engine games, which are technically 10 years ago in so many ways it isn't funny.

It was partly my fault, I know. My characters were built for roleplaying reasons (mistake!), not maximum efficiency (though I had all the bases covered... 3 fighting types, a rogue, a cleric, and a mage).

That says it all. I think it would be a fair indication that Icewind Dale II is definitively lacking in the RPG department.

Yeah, I got a kick out of that "Built for roleplaying reasons" thing, which is why I quoted it. Really, they should have at least allowed that and made it so the POWER GAMERZ had it easier.

Then again, this is BIS we're talking about.

If it's any consolation to BioWare, BIS did make a game crappier than Baldur's Gate and NWN.

It's called "Asswind Dale", a lot of hot wind about "role-playing" in an arctic setting. At it's release, it was competing with Diablo II, and while Diablo II was the more fun, AWD got some support from the AD&D (and ADHD) fanboys.

The more time goes on, it seems that Planescape: Torment is one hell of a fluke for BIS given the mediocrity of their work in general and the bugfest of Fallout 2. PS:T was the only truly halfway original Inbred Engine game out there. Then with BioWare, I'll agree that all they had to do with MDK2 was not screw it up. At that point, you couldn't trust the overpriced chimps at Shiny to do that. 8)

Fantasy can be fine. Really D&D can be good, it's just that the current games using the systems are mostly mindless hack and slash with little other redeeming value. And Baldur's Gate in space would still be, well, Baldur's Gate in space. I'm really yearning for a new setting, though, just to have something a little different. It's kind of strange how you see lots of other settings in strategy games and the like, but RPG's mostly stick to familiar territory.

Yeah, it would be great if they actually DID something with the settings. The Inbred Engine games aside from PS:T and maybe IWD2 throw in some schtick, but not much else to really pull the game together. An unusual location, an unusual character here and there, some odd things, but it hardly feels like a world. The books are a nice touch, but are basically useless on so many levels.

Most of the IE settings have been recycled from before, or the story is somewhat the same. If it were set in Chult, or another place of Forgotten Realms, then it would have been a step in the right direction for creativity. As it was, most of them turned out rather flat compared to the eventful story and tactical play of Gold/Silver box. And if someone says that Inbred Engine games are tactical (and especially the multiplayer), I'll beat them into a pulp.

Actually, in the case of Baldur's Gate, they do have reputation and alignment, and the system is just piss poor. Please tell me how a Lawful Good character can maintain a bad rep, for example.

Even in BGII the reputation system is flawed in a clear way. I'm not going to install it and check for precise prices, but when your LG Paladin is getting obscene discounts from the Thieve's Den fence, there's an obvious problem that violates the setting.

A few things I learned from most of the Inbred Engine games:

Charisma only has place in the stores.
Thieves don't like each other. That is why Paladins and goody-two-shoes get discounts.
Stupid people and supremely intelligent people speak the same way, and are treated the same.

First would be the hype that they spew every time they open their mouth.
Second would be the crap pathfinding and other technical aspects of their games. For being "current", they sure do have some shitty AI and pathfinding. Hell, they had crap pathfinding for ten years previous to when Baldur's Garbage was released.
Then you have one of BioWare's twatwaffles go on cluelessly, showing exactly how poor their design ability tends to be.

And really, compared to the gameplay in Fallout, the Inbred Engine games are nothing more than a half-ass D&D rip-off flavoring in RT+pause. There's far less ability to roleplay a type of character in BioWare games than in Fallout, Fallout 2, or Arcanum, and they say they take great lengths to try and come up with better design, yet that too turns out to be hyperbole in design and often ridiculous with lacking balance or practical design.

Frankly, I find their work nauseating when compared to Gold Box or Silver Box. BioWhore's corny BS with the Star Wars license doesn't look any better than their D&D fare, either.

A bit curious that you chose Ultima 6 than Ultima 7, as most of the Dragons I know and have been around enjoy 7 much more. However, 6 is still quite good, and is the last time they had turn-based combat. While U7 had RT combat, it was somewhat poor, but the rest of the game's aspects more than made up for it.

Which is something I can't say for any Inbred Engine game.

Good show in proving you're clueless, again, Bladen. People like you make it so easy, we often don't have to do a thing. I also can't believe that you could call the Inbred Engine "beloved", since it was often clunky and a resource hog for the shit back-end it had. Absolute ass for AI and pathfinding. The titles were beloved, but the engine was the sore point.

Considering that BG2 had jack shit in it that could be considered "hardcore", ambiguity of that term aside, you might want to explain this. Perhaps the least contrived and most playable by those not on Ritalin, but still by no means "hardcore". Or do you mean "harecoreOMFG!! threemageswithmagicshieldsattackasyouentertheroom!" kind of "hardcore"? Especially if they still want to call an RTS combat scheme RPG combat, when the action obviously takes priority over the actial ruleset of the engine. Yes, we have heard those who have been misfortunate enough to have worked on the Inbred Engine.

Command and conquer?

Amusing side note. Baldur's Gate was originally planned to be an ADHD...I mean an AD&D RTS until Interplay/BIS decided to suggest adding in Fallout's speech system, or at least a simple facsimile of it.

There are two ways of playing Baldur's Gate, either of them, and your alignment is generally useless in most ways but determining what SPESHUL GOD POWAHS you get to overcome the general shittiness of the game's design. (I will admit there were *some* entertaining moments, but it was generally more dreary of a dungeon crawler than any of the Might and Magic or most SSI games.) BioWare came up with an arbitrary stat called "Reputation" that generally had squat to do with your character's alignment and was really how people reacted to you.

"Hi, I are goody two shoes!"
Massive discounts, the game becomes EZ-Mode after a bit as generally everyone kisses your ass. Except for a couple of worthless PCs I couldn't even stand as evil.

"I are evil!"
A paladin is capable of getting better prices at a Thieve's Den due to better reputation and charisma score than, say, a thief. So you then end up donating a bit of cash to a temple, which makes your evil PCs bitch and eventually leave/attack you.

There is more, but I've generally shunted memories of both titles from my mind in favor of the far superior Planescape: Torment and to hold onto better memories of Gold Box offering far better strategy fare, even better AI. Nothing like watching in amazement as an AI "hiccup" (as BioWare excused it) causes your mage, when you click on the fireball spell and target an enemy in range, to walk up to point-blank range and jihad himself along with the kobold pack.

Now think of the pain when you have the first public incarnation of the Inbred Engine think for itself. I could never let the party characters do anything on their own for fear they would kill themselves or worse. Yes, it is possible to break the first game. Avoid the first game (you won't be missing much), the second is at least playable for me.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Viata]

We should go back to the gold box-style games, just with more C&C.

 

[Cael]

I'm going to start my own codex, and degenerate RTwP fans are not invited!

Good, don't let door hit you on arse on way out.

And you call yourself a dwarven berserker...

Let me show you how it is done!

*waits for Hamon to walk 3/4 of the way through the doorway* *kicks door shut*

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Unity engine is the new Infinity engine.

 

[Lilura]

The codex is full of infinity engine fanboys and apologists

True. But that's not the biggest problem the 'Dex faces atm.

I mean, at least the IE is isometric and full party control. At least there is some semblance of tactics.

Way I see it, the biggest problems the 'Dex faces are:

-Critics of Fallout aren't being crushed on sight.
-Critics of ToEE and Jagged Alliance 2 aren't being crushed on sight.
-In general, critics of monocled rpgs that base their criticisms on degenerate current gen fads, trends and "sensibilities" aren't being crushed on sight.
-Larian and Owl Cat aren't being laughed off stage like they ought to be. To my dismay, a few formerly good posters have declined by jumping onboard. Sadly, I have been forced to add them to my shit-tier poster list.

This is all grave and someone needs to do something.